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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Tanks -> Schneider CA2 & 3 - phoney?
Post Info TOPIC: Schneider CA2 & 3 - phoney?
James H


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Schneider CA2 & 3 - phoney?
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Citizens: I've just been reading the thread on the CA2 & 3, and I think I've made a horrible discovery. There is a film made in Germany in 1930 called Westfront 1918 - a grimmer version of All Quiet. Two excerpts are on Youtube. At the very end of Part One, two tanks appear, supporting an Allied attack. I'm afraid they appear to be mock-ups, on caterpillar tracks with a tall dummy superstructure based very loosely on the FT17. They also appear, less clearly, after about 1'20" of Part Two. They bear an alarming resemblance to stills posted in the previous thread. The centrally mounted searchlight on one of them seems to be a giveaway. If you want to have a look, the clips can be seen at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AASUXguK4fo   (Pt 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Q-VT-0wp0  (Pt 2)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, there's also a clip called German Tanks of WW1 and Early WW2, but don't get excited. It shows Schneiders, FT17s, Mk V* or V**, FCM, Vickers, Christies, and others, but there's barely a shot of any German tanks at all. Further investigation reveals that this started life as a documentary about tank development in general, with a German commentary, so someone has got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
-- Edited by James H at 03:48, 2007-05-20

-- Edited by James H at 04:43, 2007-05-20

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Roger Todd


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RE: Schneider CA2 & 3 - phoney?
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My God, James H, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head!

Here is one of the images originally posted on this site ages ago* of the purported CA-3:



Now, compare to this still made from the YouTube clip of Westfront 1918, Part 1:



Clearly, they are one and the same. Here are more stills from Westfront 1918:





And this still, which Hedi found in a documentary called Der Erste Weltkrieg...*



...looks to be from the same film as this still, from Westfront 1918, Part 2 on YouTube:



Well, many thanks, James H, for clearing up the mystery!


*http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=63528&p=3&topicID=5427714


-- Edited by Roger Todd at 10:57, 2007-05-20

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Centurion


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There are seperate textual references to CA2 and CA3 so the effect of this useful piece of detection is that we have no idea what these tanks did (or would have) looked like because the pictures are phoney rather than it being that the CA2 and CA3 were imaginary. To quote an ex US Secretary of State -'there are some things we know we don't know'

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Roger Todd


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Nobody said that the CA2 and CA3 were imaginary, simply (thanks to James H) that the film and stills originally posted which purported to be of one or both of those designs are, in fact, of movie mockups. Remember, there is still the drawing posted by Hedi, apparently of a CA3 design:



EDIT: Through re-reading my post, I note that I worded one sentence poorly enough to have given the impression that I thought the CA2/CA3 was/were imaginary - that was not my intention.

Anyway, having a browse I found this YouTube clip, which shows various WW1 French and British tanks, but also the Char 2C in action (from 32 seconds on)!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKvV89TaqbE&mode=related&search=

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 12:35, 2007-05-20

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James H


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Roger Todd wrote:


Anyway, having a browse I found this YouTube clip, which shows various WW1 French and British tanks, but also the Char 2C in action (from 32 seconds on)!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKvV89TaqbE&mode=related&search=


That's the clip I was on about. It exists with German commentary, so someone must have assumed it was about German tanks. There's only one sequence of some WWII Panzers, and I don't know enough to say which type.

As for your use of the word "purported", Roger, it seems to me to convey the meaning perfectly: to profess, or be intended to seem. Most people wouldn't argue with that.



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Centurion


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It was the thread title  (before &amp etc got interpolated) I was commenting on

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Tim R


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Very interesting James..
     Thats what good investigating work does, it either proves or disproves things. Of course in this case it was a disappointing disprovement.  I have researched the CA2-3 & 4 for years, there is just not a lot of information to go on..
 Do you no how many historians, that little bit of film has given hope to, that it was original.
 Any way, in any case, the CA2 existed, as did the CA3-4 on paper.
 Disappointing James,  but good detective work..
By the way thanks for the Helmet info..
 All the best

Tim R



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James H


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Tim R wrote:

Very interesting James..
     Thats what good investigating work does, it either proves or disproves things. Of course in this case it was a disappointing disprovement.  I have researched the CA2-3 & 4 for years, there is just not a lot of information to go on..
 Do you no how many historians, that little bit of film has given hope to, that it was original.
 Any way, in any case, the CA2 existed, as did the CA3-4 on paper.
 Disappointing James,  but good detective work..
By the way thanks for the Helmet info..
 All the best

Tim R


Oh, dear. I feel terrible now. I think I'll abandon this Father Christmas theory I'm looking into. Sorry.



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Centurion


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James H wrote:
Oh, dear. I feel terrible now. I think I'll abandon this Father Christmas theory I'm looking into. Sorry.


Just concentrate on Robin Hood, Joan of Arc and Grace Darling!



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Tim R


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Maybe you Should!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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James H


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As the Australian Minister for the Arts said when leaving the premiere of Crocodile Dundee, "Well, that's twenty years' hard work down the bloody drain."cry

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Tim R


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 Hello Gentleman
 
      Maybe so, but never give up, as one courages English chap once said..
All the Best
Tim R

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Hedi


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In my photo archive found 

Ok, was published here... :-/



-- Edited by Hedi on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 09:30:14 PM

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James H


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Hedi - that's a photo of the cast, and there's another pic in the Bundesarchiv of them walking along a road arm-in-arm. There is also a photo of the drivers of the "tanks", with IIRC some female admirers.



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Steve Zaloga


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There are at least two photos of the CA 2 that appeared in a recent article by Michel Souquet and Francois Vauvillier "Schneider CA 2: Le char de commandement decommande" in GBM, No 109 (Jul-Sep 2014). The article also includes color profiles of the design, and various surviving bits of scale plans.

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AgaPablo


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The caterpillars seem to be the Orion 75HP, later used for the developement of the Spanish Trubia series.
Regards!


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vollketten


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Sorry to restart an old thread but I thought you'd be interested to know that these were recently for sale on eBay.

qs3DS6n.jpg

30UagE7.jpg



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