Landships II

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Post Info TOPIC: More trouble with the Old Bill.


Legend

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More trouble with the Old Bill.
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The Keil Kraft B-Type Bus is driving me mad. I need some assistance.

A scan of the whole model compared to the plans shows it to be generally to scale, except thatthe passenger area istoo short. However, when I measure the individualsections and scale them up, they work out about right. I can't figure this out. I know we're dealing with fine tolerances - the aisle on the upper deck was only 15 inches wide - but I've been as precise as I can, and keep getting almost identical results.

An improbable thought occured to me; perhaps there's something wrong with the drawing. It doesseem that the upper deck is slightly out of proportion on the plans - a bit too long for the dimensions given, thus making that part of thekit appear too short.

Has anyone got the Airfix B-Type so we can compare notes?

I've found that the Preiser Seated Germans just about fit in the seats on the upper deck, whereas the Airfix RHA crew don't. I think this is due to the seats being solid; there's no space underneath for the figures' feet to go into. Enclosed are pics of seating from the real thing and detail of how the seats are anchored to the bus sides.

There was a fantastic site called Walford Arches that showed how to super-detail the B-Type with new seating and a full complement of passengers, but the bloke who ran it has died and the site has vanished.

Is there anybody out there?





-- Edited by James H at 20:05, 2007-11-30

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Captain

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Hello James

I have got the Airfix B-Type bus. The kit contains nice seats for the upper deck, but I think that those seats look small.

Please let me know what you're looking for!

Kind regards
Thomas

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Legend

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Thomas, I think I might have sorted this one out.

There's a discrepancy that never occured to me. I assumed that the easiest dimension to get right on the kit would be the overall length, but it isn't correct.

The overall length of the bus was 22' 6.5". That scales down at 1/72 to 95.4mm. The overall length of the kit is 99mm - ten inches too long. The wheel base is also too long, by about five inches. That explains why the upper and lower side panels seemed wrong even though the scale dimensions were correct. So if we use the panels as the comparison, everything is more or less OK. See the new comparison.

The rear platform is too long, but since the stairs are so inaccurate any serious conversion would replace them with something better.

The engine/bonnet is about 2mm too high, which gives the vehicle a pug-nosed look. At almost 10mm, that's a scale height of just over 2' 4" (measured from the top of the chassis). It should be about 2ft. That, the radiator, and the driver's panel (which is far too thick) need to be replaced. With that done the whole vehicle looks much more "in proportion".

The upper deck, though, is still a mess, with the seats far too small. That is caused by a combination of things. On the kit, the front and rear panels sit between the side panels. In reality, they should butt against the front and rear ends of them. They're far too thick anyway, and replacing them will free up some space. Also, the roof fits between, not on top of, the two ridges on the inside of the hull sides; that moves them away from the sides by about 1.5mm, reducing the available space still further. The seats themselves taper slightly from 10 to 9mm wide - 2' 1.5". The actual width of the seats was 2' 8". So if the existing seats are removed and new ones 11.5mm wide are fitted right up to the hull sides, with 5mm for the aisle, that's almost spot on. That adds up to a total width, including side panels of 29mm - 6' 10", the official width.

All the above doesn't sound much, but the top deck was very snug, less than 13' x 7' for 18 people. Pinching those few mils here and there should make the top deck suitable for occupancy. For the Pigeon Loft conversion, of course, the business with the seats doesn't matter.

The bus on which the kit is based is the one in the London Transport Museum, not the IWM, and the bus itself wasn't sent to France, although it's quite possible that some of this type were. The brackets supporting the driver's canopy are the lightweight version, but are easily replaced, and the window frames are the arched pattern, which doeasn't matter if the kit is finished as the boarded-up version. The embossing on the downstairs side panels is a bit heavy. I have yet to check whether it should be removed entirely.

It's a creaky old kit, with a lot of sanding and filling necessary on the major parts just to get a passable fit. There's no suspension at all - not even axles; the "lifeguards" (the wooden slats between the wheels) are utterly unrealistic, but they were removed from vehicles in military service; the stairs and guardrail would benefit from a makeover. Even the instructions are ropey. But it's a lovely idea, and I'd like to turn it into an A1 model. It's even got little decals for the advertisements, handy if you want an early-War version. (Any help with turning it into a Daimler much appreciated).


Since you're wondering, the combined width of the RHA men's backsides is 11.5mm, which is just right.

Pics show: dreadful roof; roof mountings inside hull sides; correct front panel; decals.



-- Edited by James H at 01:41, 2007-12-02

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Legend

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Hi James, judging by the decal adds I think this may be the Kielkraft B-type

http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/tfl/collections/vehicles/display.aspx?image=images/b-type/2006.8503.jpg&caption=&IXimgsrc=main&IXimgheight=362&IXimgwidth=450


From the London Transport museum... a link in the other Bus thread

Cheers

-- Edited by Ironsides at 21:16, 2007-12-02

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Sergeant

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Hi, just noticed your image side view with measuremenets.

I have been trying hard to find plans of an old Bill buss, or of a London B type bus...

would be greatful to know where you found that image, and if there is more.

regards

Sandy

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Legend

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Hi, Sandy.

The drawing is on the inside front cover of The London Motor Bus; Its Origins and Development by J.G. Bruce & C.H. Curtis. Side, front, and rear view. I'm sure it can be found elsewhere.

Given time, I can scan it for you.

 



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Sergeant

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Hi, thanks I will tray Abe books for it. regards, Sandy

 

update, found a copy for $3.50... which snow on its way to me.

 

thanks for the information greatly appreciated...

 

Regards, Sandy



-- Edited by nurgle on Monday 8th of June 2015 11:26:01 PM

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Hero

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James

I am afraid the scale of the Kiel Craft kit isn't that accurate.Don't forget the kit was out years ago. The best set of scale drawings is in the book,The London B-Type Motor Omnibus by G J Robbins&J B Atkinson ISBN 1-871979-04-8

I did a fair amount of research for my W^D kits of the Civilian&W^D types.

The seats are all wrong,as is a lot of other things in the kit.But give Kiel Kraft there due I doubt if there was much,if any accurate info on the real thing at the time they did the kit.

Here's a pic of mine with the seat detail.



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