Landships II

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Modelling -> "75mm World War I Artillery Piece" from HALES Life-Like Model Kits
Post Info TOPIC: "75mm World War I Artillery Piece" from HALES Life-Like Model Kits
Wollhodden


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 134
Date:
"75mm World War I Artillery Piece" from HALES Life-Like Model Kits
Permalink   

I´ve just got this plastic model kit of an "75mm World War I Artillery Piece" from "HALES Life-Like Model Kits".

There´s neither a name of the gun model nor a scale of the model indicatet?!
First I thought it could be the German  "7.7 cm Feldkanone  96 n/A" but it seems to the  French "Canon de 75mm mle 1897 ("75")", but is the barrel not to short for that gun, isn´t it? evileye
And what scale is it? - The diameter of the whells are 73mm, the trail about 110mm!

I´ve never heard of "HALES Life-Like Model Kits" before, does this firm exist yet? (It seems to be a very old kit!) confused

 

Attachments
__________________
James H


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 3880
Date:
Permalink   

The picture is almost certainly a 77, and nothing like the French 75, so the description makes no sense. I've never heard of this manufacturer but shall investigate.

__________________

"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Wollhodden


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 134
Date:
Permalink   

James H wrote:

The picture is almost certainly a 77, and nothing like the French 75, so the description makes no sense. I've never heard of this manufacturer but shall investigate.



 Yes, that was what I thought first, too!

But take a look at the breech (last pic), that looks like a (rudimentary) breech of French 75 and not like the "block-Breech" of the German 77!?


Take a look at the drawings of here:

http://www.landships.freeservers.com/feldkanone_96_na.htm

http://www.landships.freeservers.com/french_75.htm



Was there a French 75 with a shorter barrel? (I don´t think so!) weirdface
It seems to be a "bastard" of those two guns! biggrin

 



__________________
Centurion


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2332
Date:
Permalink   

I have one of these. It was intended to be a French 75 as used by the US Army. The firm sold three kits, a Gatling, an 18 pounder naval gun and the 75 - all wildly inaccurate. The 75 as modelled has no form of trunion - the cradle just rests in the hole in the shield! I think they got the moulds from someone else as Hales did make some good kits of other subjects.

__________________
aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions
Wollhodden


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 134
Date:
Permalink   

Centurion wrote:

I have one of these. It was intended to be a French 75 as used by the US Army. The firm sold three kits, a Gatling, an 18 pounder naval gun and the 75 - all wildly inaccurate. The 75 as modelled has no form of trunion - the cradle just rests in the hole in the shield! I think they got the moulds from someone else as Hales did make some good kits of other subjects.



Had the 75 used by US forces another barrel? I´ve never seen any pics of it!

And do you maybe have some pics of your build model?

I don´t wanted to build this one, actually I wanted use it as an exist for an custom 1:6 model. - But it seems not to be suited as it´s so incorrect! weirdfacebleh

Below the other gun models of this series:

-- Edited by Wollhodden at 18:55, 2008-09-25

Attachments
__________________
Centurion


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2332
Date:
Permalink   

Never built it as the parts are oversize and 'orrible. The rivets alone are in another scale altogether.

__________________
aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions
James H


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 3880
Date:
Permalink   

The Hales piece bears something of a resemblance to the Schneider-Canet and its near relatives.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=63528&p=3&topicID=17089852


__________________

"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Ralph Lovett


General

Status: Offline
Posts: 308
Date:
Permalink   

These are kits that have been around for many years.  Who ever gave the kit its title just got it wrong. It is a US M1902 3 INCH with an interrupted screw breech not a Nordenfelt breech.

This was a US piece that did not see service in WW1.  It was only used state-side for training and the raids into Mexico in 1916.  My unit (1/118 Field Artillery) had these back in the WW1 Era for service against the Mexicans and like most other US Field Artillery units, once sent to Europe, got French 75mm mle/97 pieces.

 

I have attached a tech drawing of the US 3 Inch 1902.  There is also a 1905 variant of this piece.  Over the years I have had two field guns of this type.  They are common in the US.

 

The US also produced a 3 Inch M1916 which was the same old 1902 type tube, with a St. Chamond recoil and a split trail carriage.  These also never saw service in either of the World Wars.



Attachments
__________________
Ralph Lovett
Wollhodden


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 134
Date:
Permalink   

THAT`S IT! - Thank you,  Ralph! ideasmile
But, what scale ist it (should it be)? confused

M1902 field gun

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M1902 field gun
300px-M1905HowitzerB%26W.jpg
Type Light field gun
Place of origin Flag of the United States United States
Service history
In service 1902 - 1920s
Used by Flag of the United States United States
Wars World War I
Production history
Variants M 1902, 1904, 1905
Specifications
Weight gun & breech : 835 lb (1902 & 1904); 788 lb (1905); 2,520 lb gun & carriage total.
Barrel length 84 inch (bore); 87.8 inch (total)
Shell Fixed ammunition, 15 lb shell
Calibre 3 inch
Breech interrupted screw
Recoil hydro - spring, 45 inch
Elevation -5° - 15°
Muzzle velocity 1,700 ft/sec
Effective range 6,000 yards @ 15°
Maximum range 8,500 yards (approx.)

The M1902, a.k.a. M1905 3-inch gun (76.2mm) was the U.S. Armys first steel, rifled, breech loading, recoiling field gun. These features improved the range, accuracy, and rate of fire of the gun, allowing it to be used more effectively in operations with infantry. These new capabilities allowed the gun to provide accurate indirect fire on targets not in a direct line of sight, which provided crucial firepower for infantry attacks. It was also one of the first artillery guns to have an armored shield to protect the crew from small arms fire.

General Pershing brought several of the guns with him during the Mexican Punitive Expedition in 1916-17 but they were not fired in combat.

The M1902/5 was used from 1905-1917. During World War I, the Army used the French 75s instead of the M1902s, which were mostly kept in the United States for training. Very few of the M1902s were used in combat in Europe. They were phased out of active service in the 1920s.

The gun fired 3 inches (76 mm) Shrapnel or Explosive Shells that weighed 15 Pounds[1]. It had a muzzle velocity of 1,700 ft/s (520 m/s) with an effective range of 6500 yards, and a maximum range of 8500 yards. The maximum rate of fire was 15 rounds per minute.



__________________
James H


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 3880
Date:
Permalink   

Game, set, and match, Ralph and Wollhodden.

Here is pic of the ill-fated M1916 that Ralph mentions.

Point of order: the M1916 and the M1902 have sixteen-spoked wheel, whereas the kit has fourteen-spoked.

Attachments
__________________

"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Centurion


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2332
Date:
Permalink   

James H wrote:


Point of order: the M1916 and the M1902 have sixteen-spoked wheel, whereas the kit has fourteen-spoked.
I think the same masters for the wheels were used when making the moulds for more than one kit



__________________
aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions
Ralph Lovett


General

Status: Offline
Posts: 308
Date:
Permalink   

One way to get the scale is to use a known measurement. The wheel outside diameter should be 57 inches. However, with the error in spoke numbers, who knows if the wheel diameter is correctly to scale.

Ralph Lovett
http://lovettartillery.com/index.html


__________________
Ralph Lovett
Ironsides


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 1626
Date:
Permalink   


Hi All, Could be espionage apparantly stolen blue prints were offered to the US government in 1900.....this might account for some similaritys.....

New York Times Nov 11th 1900

Cheers

__________________

"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 
Centurion


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2332
Date:
Permalink   

Ironsides wrote:


Hi All, Could be espionage apparantly stolen blue prints were offered to the US government in 1900


Not by a certain Captain D----s one assumes; J'accuse



__________________
aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions
philthydirtyanimal


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 671
Date:
Permalink   

And here is the handbook for it

http://www.archive.org/details/handbookof3inchg00unitrich

in case you wanted to measure everything, or you are having trouble getting to sleep!

__________________
In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.
Wollhodden


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 134
Date:
Permalink   


Thanks to all of you!
But I think I´ll sell it! smile

Soon, at ebay.de (I think sunday afternoon)! biggrin

__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Modelling -> "75mm World War I Artillery Piece" from HALES Life-Like Model Kits
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard