Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Krupp 75mm War Trophy - Tasmania


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Krupp 75mm War Trophy - Tasmania
Permalink   


The following photographs are by David McGinness and are of a privately owned  Tasmanian located 75mm gun, captured by the 3rd Australian Light Horse in Palestine in 1918. Serial number in photo.





-- Edited by sandy1000 on Sunday 31st of January 2010 09:52:08 AM

-- Edited by sandy1000 on Sunday 31st of January 2010 09:54:30 AM

-- Edited by sandy1000 on Sunday 31st of January 2010 09:56:37 AM

-- Edited by sandy1000 on Sunday 31st of January 2010 10:00:07 AM

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

Could you get me some dimensions Plse!!! Beg even. This is a gun that I realy want to do a conversion for. Things like wheel diameter, shield width & height, Trail length, Barrel length - in front of shield & behind shield?

These are important so I can scale the image!

In hopefull anticipation please!

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

I'll do my best!

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 1275
Date:
Permalink   


There seems to have been at least a couple of versions of the M1903 (I've seen reference to a M1910 - but I don't know whether that is right or not).

I've collected images of a few M03 guns at ammsbrisbane.com in particular try:

Ziza gun at Charleville - www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation/m03_2.html
Gayndah - www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation/m03_3.html
Stanthorpe - www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation/m03_6.html

I've been promised a set of images of the Semakh gun at Enoggera which has been recently restored so watch this space. There's another restored gun at Bandiana - Bernard Plumier has some images of this one on his blog. Unfortunately the closest one to me with public access is at least 2/3 hours drive from my place, else I would go for a drive with a tape measure. (Pity you didn't want an FK 96 n.A - there's one about 10 mins drive away.)

Regards,

Charlie




__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

Brennan wrote:

Could you get me some dimensions Plse!!! Beg even. This is a gun that I realy want to do a conversion for. Things like wheel diameter, shield width & height, Trail length, Barrel length - in front of shield & behind shield?

These are important so I can scale the image!

In hopefull anticipation please!



I have left a message on your email address re this gun - contacts etc.

 



__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

Owner's email address sent to your email address -he is very much prepared to assist.

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks, sent the owner an e-mail a week back, so will wait patienly (well as much as is possible for an egear enthusiast) for a bounty full reply.

__________________


Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 49
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Geoff

Where in Tasmania is that private collection ?

Thanks !

Bernard

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

I have sent you a message re potential action to take.

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

I don't know yet but am working on it.

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

Many thanks for your tremendous help, have responded to your message.

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

I have just spoken to the gun owner's wife and she says that he is away for the week, getting back Thursday. I will call him then, all should be OK. I have also spoken to the carer of the Beaconsfield gun who lives nearby and he will contact him also. We'll get there!

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

Many Many Thanks!

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

Hi,

The dimensions are:

Wheels diameter: 1.3 metres
Shield dimensions: width 1.350 metres X height 1.2 metres including the lower ricochet plate.
Barrel length forward of shield proper (not from end of cowling that protrudes out over barrel): 1.5 metres
Trail length from centre of axle: 3.5 metres.

Another gun is in the process of being measured to confirm these dimensions. Details shortly.

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

biggrinYou Sir Are A Gem!

Just sitting here checking the Emhar nA96 as a basis for a conversion.

1. Wheels - scale 18.1mm on nA96 19.5mm so close enough
2. Shield width - scale 18.8mm on nA96 19.0mm so fine
3. Shield height - scale 16.7mm on nA96 20.0mm so a bit of trimming to do but that's easy.
4. Trail length - scale 48.6mm on nA96 37mm or 2.7m in 1:1. This might be the measurement to check?
5. Barrel length forward of shield proper - scale 20.8mm on nA96 18mm, so will need to shift this forward a bit or put in an insert? Should be fine as I always felt the Emhar nA96 had too much gun tube behind the shield any how. Total barrel length on the model is 30mm (excluding breech is & chamber(?) its 23mm). Emhar model has barely 2/3rds in front of shield & I think 3/4's is correct ratio so room to slide forward. As the M03 is an L30 gun (& Krupp used full length?) that would give 31mm. Close enough for government work (& conversions).

6. Shift the nA96's axel to infront of the shield.
7. Trim off the crew seats on the front of the shield.
8. Add the extra forward bracing struts - diagonal forward of the shield.
9. Fill in the back end of the trail.
10. Modify the crew seat on the trail.
11. Add the projecting cone over the barrel to the front of the shield.

Then Bob's you're Uncle an M03 from a nA96

Great!biggrin

-- Edited by Brennan on Friday 12th of February 2010 03:12:37 AM

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

I have been in contact with the carers of the gun at the Stanthorpe RSL, Queensland -stanrsl@halenet.com and they are also measuring their gun.  Put AMMS Brisbane into Google - go to War Trophy - go to Stanthorpe - highlight this and the photo of their gun is shown and it is in excellent condtion. They are only available Fridays and I'm sure that they would be prepared to help.

If you want extra info try them.

Also I spoke to Wayne Habner in Launceston by phone and he is also eager to help. He provided the above info. I suggestyou contact him by phone 61 (0) 63444940 as email is via his wife and a bit tricky. Wayne owns the restored gun at Launceston.

Then I've got Des Cowburn of  Gaynduh who will hopefuly also measure up their gun.

Finally there is Clive Cleenstrupp who will measure the gun at Gympie next week.

-- Edited by sandy1000 on Friday 12th of February 2010 03:29:45 AM

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

Info sent direct via email

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 74
Date:
Permalink   

sandy1000 wrote:

I have been in contact with the carers of the gun at the Stanthorpe RSL, Queensland -stanrsl@halenet.com and they are also measuring their gun.  Put AMMS Brisbane into Google - go to War Trophy - go to Stanthorpe - highlight this and the photo of their gun is shown and it is in excellent condtion. They are only available Fridays and I'm sure that they would be prepared to help.

The Stanthorpe people responded today:

Barrel 1.65 metres
Wheels diam = 1.54 metres
Shield: 1.33 x 1.2 metres x 4mm
Trail 2.1 metres

As these dimesions differ with Wayne Habner's gun I suggest that you contact the Stanthorpe guys direct if there is any query.



__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 1275
Date:
Permalink   


It might be worth while checking with the AWM (Australian War Memorial) - they did detailed drawings of many of the trophy guns in the 1920s.

We could be looking at 2 different production runs of the M1903 gun - the captured guns seem to have manufacture years clustered around 1904 and 1913. The Stanthorpe gun has seats on the axle tree which aren't present on the Launceston or Gayndah guns.

Here's the direct links for the M1903 guns mentioned above:

Stanthorpe - www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation/m03_6.html
Gayndah - www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation/m03_3.html
Gympie (not a good image) - www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation/m03_5.html

There are also M1903s at Barcaldine, Charleville and the 2/14th Museum at Enoggera.

Regards,

Charlie


-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 16th of February 2010 05:37:14 AM

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

With Seat on the Axel Tree - in front of the gun shield it is most likely a horse artillery piece! So could well have variations to reduce weight?

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 1275
Date:
Permalink   

Brennan wrote:

biggrinYou Sir Are A Gem!

Just sitting here checking the Emhar nA96 as a basis for a conversion.

1. Wheels - scale 18.1mm on nA96 19.5mm so close enough
2. Shield width - scale 18.8mm on nA96 19.0mm so fine
3. Shield height - scale 16.7mm on nA96 20.0mm so a bit of trimming to do but that's easy.
4. Trail length - scale 48.6mm on nA96 37mm or 2.7m in 1:1. This might be the measurement to check?
5. Barrel length forward of shield proper - scale 20.8mm on nA96 18mm, so will need to shift this forward a bit or put in an insert? Should be fine as I always felt the Emhar nA96 had too much gun tube behind the shield any how. Total barrel length on the model is 30mm (excluding breech is & chamber(?) its 23mm). Emhar model has barely 2/3rds in front of shield & I think 3/4's is correct ratio so room to slide forward. As the M03 is an L30 gun (& Krupp used full length?) that would give 31mm. Close enough for government work (& conversions).

6. Shift the nA96's axel to infront of the shield.
7. Trim off the crew seats on the front of the shield.
8. Add the extra forward bracing struts - diagonal forward of the shield.
9. Fill in the back end of the trail.
10. Modify the crew seat on the trail.
11. Add the projecting cone over the barrel to the front of the shield.

Then Bob's you're Uncle an M03 from a nA96

Great!biggrin

-- Edited by Brennan on Friday 12th of February 2010 03:12:37 AM




The gun shield on the M03 had a curved top rather than the hinged top section of the FK96 - it's one of the obvious differences between the guns. Perhaps you'd need a new plasticard shield. There are also braces on the back of the shield on the FK96 which don't seem to be present on the M03.

Regards,

Charlie

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Wednesday 17th of February 2010 02:56:56 AM

__________________


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 732
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Brennan,

I hope it worked, to post a picture...is this a M 03 too?

regards, Kieffer

Attachments
__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

Yes, looks like one to me. Has all the distinctive features I would expect.

__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

CharlieC wrote:

The gun shield on the M03 had a curved top rather than the hinged top section of the FK96 - it's one of the obvious differences between the guns. Perhaps you'd need a new plasticard shield. There are also braces on the back of the shield on the FK96 which don't seem to be present on the M03.

Regards,

Charlie

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Wednesday 17th of February 2010 02:56:56 AM

The brackets behind the Gun Shield on the 77mm FK na96 realy don't show on the Emhar model so these are no problem.

Regards the Gun shield I have some sugery to do any way. The top hinged section has to be cut off the reduce the height. I will then trim this & use it to replave the richocet plate from the bottom on the 77 mm FK na96 as that is full width. On the M03 the bottom is in two sections with  a gap in the middle plus the don't go so close to the ground.

Thanks for remonding me re the curve. Here I believe that I will curve a section of card - enough for 2 parts so its big enough to curve - over a mandrel (a very convienently shaped pen I have), cut & use. Its easier to just do the peripherals than reconstruct a full shaped shield.

This conversion is about number 3 or 4 on the list so (if I stay unemployed) a few weeks perhaps? Will let you know how it progresses.

Many thanks, Brennan

 



__________________


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 732
Date:
Permalink   

Hi Brennan,

an AA version...

Regards, Kieffer

Attachments
__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

Ye Gods! For shooting at low flying stationary Airships perchance? Don't see it tracking anything else!biggrin

__________________


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 732
Date:
Permalink   

the rear part...the wheels used again, nothing thrown away. Like to see a conversion of this one Brennan!

Attachments
__________________


Lieutenant-Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:
Permalink   

I just finished scratch building a Brit 2.95" Mountain Howitzer in 72 scale, including the lifting lugs - made by drilling holes in 1.5mm plastic rod with a 0.9mm drill bit!furious

So yes I'm a masochist, but that much a masochist I'm not shure. Now if I can find a wargame use for it you might just tempt me to be a real lunitic & try?furious

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 1119
Date:
Permalink   

kieffer wrote:

an AA version...



I'm straying a bit off-topic here, but I came across these snaps of the French 75 in two AA configurations, the top one being the little-known tripod adaptation:

http://www.archive.org/stream/warillustratedal04hammuoft#page/1351/mode/1up

Just for interest's sake ...



__________________
Facimus et Frangimus


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 1275
Date:
Permalink   

 

Recycling an old thread....

The gun in the images is a Rumanian Krupp 75mm Model 1904. The cipher of King Carol I is on the barrel but it's hard to pick up in the images.

It probably got to Palestine courtesy of the Turkish 26th Infantry Division. This unit (and 2 other divisions) fought on the Rumanian front and captured many Rumanian guns. The 26th division was deployed to Palestine after the Rumanian service in early 1917. It looks as if they had taken the captured 75mm guns on strength and took them to Palestine.

The gun lacks the usual Arabic inscriptions of the pre-war Turkish orders of Krupp guns.

Regards,

Charlie



-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 29th of March 2011 10:29:51 PM

__________________
Ilan

Date:
Permalink   

Hi David

I would like to upload one of the photos taken by you of the 75 mm Krupp gun onto the Hebrew Wikipedia. and for that I need your permissen. Can you send me your permission  to my

E-Mail   ?     (   milan@y-m.co.il  )

 live in Israel and the 75 mm Krupp Gun here are of diferent type.

Regards.

Ilan

 



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us