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Post Info TOPIC: ST. Chamond. Modelltrans. 1/72


Major

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ST. Chamond. Modelltrans. 1/72
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p1030845_199.jpgp1030847_100.jpg

-- Edited by Jaroslav K on Sunday 5th of December 2010 11:48:30 AM

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Legend

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That model seems to have an issue with the Rimailo gun - the original gun didn't have a collar around the end of the barrel.

Regards,

Charlie


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Legend

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I was under the impression that it did.

This is the prototype. What seems to be missing from the model is the extended central "prow".


-- Edited by James H on Sunday 5th of December 2010 06:25:14 PM

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Legend

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I should have dug out an image. The attachment between the recoil/recuperator and the barrel can be seen in the attached image. It's pretty thin and unlike the collar in the model.

Agree about the missing prow (wire cutter?).

Regards,

Charlie



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Commander in Chief

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Zooming in on the top photo there seems to be a space for a part yet to be fitted - maybe the wire cutter ? Also had this on Modeltrans site  MT72804 Mark. IV tracks   but no picture




Paul

-- Edited by Paul Bonnett on Monday 6th of December 2010 01:03:05 AM

-- Edited by Paul Bonnett on Monday 6th of December 2010 01:04:17 AM

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Legend

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I've never looked too closely at that projection before. I think it's meant either to cut wire or to deflect it under the Tank, or maybe a bit of both.

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Brigadier

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Bonjour,

It's well the St Chamond M1 (and not the prototyp).
There is no "original gun" on the Saint Chamond

75 mm Saint Chamond was used on :
- St Chamond M1 n° 62401 to 62550. (except for the 40 recovery St Chamond)
- St Chamond M2/M3 n° 62151 to 62610.

75 mm M 97 was used on tanks n° 62611 to 62800.

There is a space under the barrel for 75 mm Saint Chamond and not on 75 mm Schneider (not used on tank) and not very different from this St chamond's gun.

Michel

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Legend

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"Original" as in first fitted - I know there's a similar word in French but the meaning in English is broader.

The gun (75mm Tir Rapide) first fitted to the St Chamond tank was designed by Col. Rimailo who received a royalty on each gun manufactured. The St Chamond tank was also designed by Col. Rimailo. There is a phrase in Australian dialect to describe this - "looks shonky". It was hardly surprising that the gun was changed to the 75mm M1897.

Regards,

Charlie


-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 6th of December 2010 12:07:20 PM

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Major

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Thank you for the information on the gun.
Anybody got another photo of this tank? Thank you.
stchamond_tank_bw1_204.jpg

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Brigadier

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Bonsoir,

May 3th, 1917, in front of Condé-sur-Aisne church. 

This tank was the St chamond M1 AsP1 n° 62477 "Teddy" from Group AS 31. It's an Army photo.

There a Bear drawing on the left front side of this tank. Teddy was the son's bear from Lt Bégarie who is the man, with a beret, on driver post (left cuppola).
Lt Bégarie was the commander of the first Battery (As de pique).

The man on top of the tank is the Group commander : Captain Calmels.
The group were going to the Fort de Condé and faught on Moulin de Laffaux on May 5th, 1917.

You have other photos from this tank on Landships and on this french website  
http://www.chars-francais.net/new/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=37

You can also found photos from this tank (and a film from Spa) at the French miltary unit : ECPA-D - Fort d'Ivry in Paris, and command it by internet.

Bon week-end - Michel


-- Edited by Tanker on Saturday 11th of December 2010 12:07:20 AM

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Major

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Thank you Michel for the information.
Black Lion decal on the tank Teddy not correct?
72004.jpg


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Brigadier

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Bonjour,

No, and I have already said it to Black Lion's team.

Teddy is from Group AS 31. Numbers and letters are not in the same size :
            A 31 S (all in white)

The Ace is black and the name Teddy, only on the right side is in two colors. I don't know the inner color.
There is an other model of "Teddy". This other drawing is different an only in white. I don't know which is the first one.
There is different camouflages of this tank, and it's probably for this reason that we can found two models of "teddy".
The tank number "62477" (in white) is only on rear, back of the left side.
The bear on the right side (in white) is a lying bear readdy to jump.

"D'Artagnan" was from Groupe AS 37 (As de Carreau 3 - tank number unknown) 
"Risque-Tout" was from Groupe AS 39 (As de Coeur 3 - n° 62655)
These two tanks are not flat roof models.
It was not a good markings for a St Chamond M1.

Only Teddy and Yette can be used for a flat roof St Chamond M1.
"Yette" was from Groupe AS 31 (As de Coeur 3 - n° 62481)

The two interlaced letters (A and S) were only used by St Chamond from Groupement n° XI (Groupe AS 32, AS 34 and AS 36)

Ace in color were used on Renault FT only after the war. Any first world military document speak of color for aces on Renault.
My opinion is that, during First World War, these aces are only in black on white forms (square, circle and triangle).

In a same Artillerie Spéciale Group (for Schneider and St Chamond), there is a lot of differents in tank's markings that it's only with photos that it's possible to be sure about a specific marking.

Bonne maquette - Michel



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Major

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Again, thank you Michel, what do you think of this picture?
untitled4_116.jpg



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Brigadier

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Colors of french WW 1 tanks . . . . ! I said like Normandie's citizens :
"ptéte ben que oui, ptéte ben que non !

Just on black & white photos there is so many possibility that I have not really righ view on it.
I am only sure that the tanks were first painted with french artillery grey (a blue/grey color).
After that . . . .

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Brigadier

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Bonjour,

Here is Teddy on the left side





Bon Dimanche - Michel

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Major

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Thenks Michel, Thenks.

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Major

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Fantomas?
st_chamond_7_174.jpg

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Brigadier

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Bonsoir,

Fantomas is a St Chamond M1 from Groupe AS 31. It was the n° 62458. This tank was the first tank from third Battery and its tank's commander was Lt Péan.

Nothing proved that "Fantomas was painted in red . . .

You can see, with these two photos, that marking and camouflage, for a same tank, were very different.
The second photo is probably from the end of 1917, or beginning of 1918.

During this "14 Juillet" each Schneider and St Chamond parad with 4 tanks (the first one from each Battery)
First Battery's tank on right hand. On this photo the fourth tank is hidden.





I think that yellow of the drawings are not good. It is more yellow earth.

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Commander in Chief

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a view from under the nose. The gun apparantly having a mud protector, looks like it's made of leather?

regards, Kieffer

-- Edited by kieffer on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 08:44:40 AM

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Legend

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The leather cap on the muzzle is pretty common on WW1 guns.  Most guns had a cap over the muzzle when they were being transported.

What is interesting is the pair of plates on each side of the front of the receiver - looks as if they are designed to stop the front of the receiver hanging up on obstacles - would not do the elevation gear much good though.

Regards,

Charlie


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Brigadier

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Bonjour,

This St Chamond M1 is the number 62525 from Groupe AS 39. It was the 2th tank from 2th battery (AsCo2).
Here is a good view from gun muzzle.
The two plates were not on the St Chamond wheeled gun (75 mm St Chamond L12 CTR)

Michel



-- Edited by Tanker on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 12:08:41 PM

-- Edited by Tanker on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 12:08:58 PM

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Major

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Again, thank you.Tanker.

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