This is a scan, of a photocopy, of the front page of a 1914 edition of the 'North Eastern Railway Magazine', showing an early armoured car crewed by a former North Eastern Railway staff member now with the Royal Marines, I believe it's a Talbot but does anyone have more information on it please?
I have studied autumn 1914 armoured cars some time, so I am happy to tell you something.
This is one of the Cdr Samson's original RNAS Clement-Talbots from the autumn 1914.
21 were ordered. It is not sure if that amount was really ever built. Most probably not. What I know for sure is that 6 Talbots were in service in France. The Germans captured one in 9th Oct 1914 when Antwerp surrendered.
"Open top" configuration of the armour of these Talbots was similar to RR and often these Talbots are thought to be Rolls Royces.
After that, in November 1914, five Talbots and one RR were modified to this model in the Dunkerque yard. The idea was to improve very bad personnel protection of the first armoured cars.
They just raised the armour and took some of from the low sector to balance the weight. As these were modified very individually, there were two different types of hull: long and short one.
Four names of these five Talbots are known: HMS Aniche, HMS Cassel, HMS Orchies and HMS Douai, all named after the RNAS battles.
This one is long hull version, because it has a long end after the rear axle. I suppose the photo has been taken soon after the construction in Dunkerque yard, because it looks brand new. Also, Cdr Samson told that these cars had camouflage paint.
By the way, has anyone the book Stephen Lally & John Tomsett: Talbot in the First World War? I don't know if that book has any more information about this subject.
This is just great! So far I know only three photos of open top Talbots and two of these "Modified Admiralty 1st Pattern Clement-Talbots".
Attached are all five in the same photo.
Rob, where did you find that? Do you have it? I would be very much interested to see the whole story, which seems to continue to the next page...
-- Edited by MTorrent on Monday 6th of February 2012 12:34:43 PM
As I understand it, the first Talbots (along with the rest of the Dunkirk vehicles) were fitted with improvised armour, as shown. Then the Admiralty produced a standard body that could be fitted to all types. So the Talbot and Delaunay-Belleville were almost identical. I think the Lanchester and RR versions must have required some modification before fitting. Pls correct me if I've misunderstood this.
It would be interesting to see the next page of the article to see if it describes what vehicles were used to extricate the Royal Irish Regiment.
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This subject has much "fog of war", since all was done so rapidly and in a short time, without too much paperwork...
Five Talbots and one RR where improved with this improvised armour. I think there wasn't so many open model RRs in France in 1914, perhaps only three, so other ones were still under construction in Britain. Wolseleys were considered useless for improving, so I suppose they were left as such and later stripped and used as normal tenders. Their chassis was too weak.
Three turreted Delaunay-Bellevilles were built in Dunkerque or Dunkirk about at the same time when these improved Talbots and RR. I suppose Delaunay-Belleville with turret was that one which effected most for turreted pattern RR and Lanchester design.
A one officer from Samson's squadron was ordered to Admiralty to take part for designing turreted armoured cars already in october, so these projects were done more or less simultanously. RR and Lanchester turreted models are still brand new designs, not modifications, eventhough they are partly based on these modifications and prototypes.
Then there were also few turreted Talbots, which were privately funded projects for certain army regiments. These were based on Admiralty model turreted RRs.
I can imagine how these RNAS fellows have been carefully studying Belgian SAVA when they were few days in Antwerp...
Have you seen the book,Talbot in the First World War (activities of Talbot cars and the Clement Talbot works 1914-1918) by Stephen Lally & John Tomsett published in 2008. A full history of the Talbot's. A very interesting book.
Many thanks for the information everyone - I have just ordered the Talbot book (if anyone else is interested I can forward the e mail with purchase details).
Unfortunately I do not own a copy of this magazine, but can get back to the archive hopefully before too long to get the rest of the article as I'm researching this Railway in WW1, as well as what it's staff got up to
Received the Talbot book today - wow! What a wealth of beautiful images, not just of the Talbot but of other vehicles at Wormwood Scrubs such as the armoured de Dion Bouton anti aircraft lorry etc
I am very interested by the book: "Talbot in the First World War by Stephen Lally & John Tomsett : who can give me the references of a British bookseller where I can buy one example?
Would appreciate it if you'd (1) print the entire article and (2) is you'd give us a larger shot of the vehicle itself, i.i e., w/o the surrounding print.
The chap the article is about gets a whole chapter in my upcoming book 'The North Eastern Railway in the First World War' - will upload a high-resolution scan when I next get the chance to upload images (also have a walkaround of a Thornycroft J Type lorry)
