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Post Info TOPIC: Preserved Tank Loadstar III


Corporal

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Preserved Tank Loadstar III
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Hi Everybody,

 

I am new to the forum and have taken a new interest in WWI tanks due to a model project so I have many questions on a subject I know very little about! So here we go...

 

I am building a model of a Mk IV tank from the Tamiya kit and I would like to mark it up as the famous preserved machine Lodestar III. Whilst I have not been to see the real vehicle, I have done a bit of research both on line and using books and so on and from what I can gather, the paint it is in is probably period and (with the questions I have for experts / people that have seen her in the flesh) goes like this:

 

1 The overall colour is the brown / khaki / beige colour.

 

2 It has the Lodestar III text in mid to dark red near the front of the sponson and it isn't large or particularly well painted from a sign writers point of view - I guess it's hard to be fussy while being shot at...

 

3 She has the number 4093 in approximately 6" high letters on the rear of the rhomboid shape. I can't tell if these are in faded yellow or mucky / old white. The different light levels of the photos don't help at all. I would appreciate advice on this point please.

 

4 She has the white / red / white recognition stripes definitely on the front of the rhomboid and the rear lower additional armour plate in front of the fuel tank. It looks in some lights as if there is the corresponding stripes on the cab roof too. I feel that if she had it on the front and rear that she should have it on the roof too but I am not 100% sure. Any advice here please?

 

5 Now for the tricky bit! On the appliqué armour next to the rear hatch there seems to be a number. The last two digits are definitely 4 and 7 but what is the first? I think it's an L for three reasons. Firstly, you can see a straight lower part to the digit in some pictures and a vague suggestion of a vertical part to the left in others. Secondly, according to Mr D. Fletcher in his Haynes Manual for the Mk IV, the tank was a member of 12th (or L) Battalion and I think (willing to be corrected here!) this would fit with L47. Thirdly, in the same publication, Mr D. Willey states that it was a common practice to use names that used the 'letter code' of their battalion as the first letter of the name which also fits with Lodestar III. I presume this would be in white but is it possible for it to be yellow? Any advice again welcome please!

 

6 The instructions for the kit tell you to paint the whole Lewis Gun and ball mount assembly in a gunmetal colour but looking at Lodestar III it seems the ball mount should be tank colour.

 

If I do the above, do you all think that it will be reasonably accurate?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

All the best,

 

Castle



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PDA


Legend

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Welcome, Castle,

I'm not one of the experts around here, but I have been around here for a while and I hope I have absorbed some of their knowledge!

To answer to your question, I would say, "Yes, she would be an accurate model."

On this forum, Lodestar III has come up a few times over the years and the general consensus seems to be that she is in her original paint, but it has probably darkened (or at least changed) over the nearly 100 years. There is also a consensus that there was probably not uniformity of colour, with paint from different batches being different shades of brown.

She was L47. I don't know if the Mark IVs carried ID stripes on the roof, but it would make sense. I'd wager the numbers near the back (or stern, if you like) were white originally. I think the ball mounts would have been painted along with the rest of the tank, ie brown.

Did you catch the recent discussion on weathering of tracks?

HTH



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WWI in 1/72



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Hi PDA,

Many thanks for the reply - great stuff! I wasn't too far out then... As I said, I don't know much about these sorts of things but I love looking at old machinery in all it's forms.

I guessed the actual shade of Lodestar III would have changed - I help look after full size steam locomotives so we are well aware of this phenomenon even today. Paints changed (and still do!) a great deal in the chemically and light hostile environs of railways. We have also found that, while there 'recipes' for paint, they changed a lot due to the very human mixing processes done in house at the railway works, hence slight variations in the colour.

The roof stripe thing comes of a document that I found on line that was from the Brigadier General of the Tank Corps dated 11/3/1918 that asked for the roofs of tanks to be painted. It had accompanying drawings for the recognition stripes to be applied to Mk IVs, Mk 5s and Whippets. It is difficult to see but in quite a few photos it looks like the angle section above the front cab windows is of a different colour - possibly this old white when compared with the other patches on the tank. There are also the faintest traces of a red (which I admit might be rust!) but seeing how poorly the red is preserved on other sections of the tank, I am not surprised to see it almost wholly absent. If there are any other thoughts on this I would be grateful!

The track weathering thing sounds interesting - I will track it down!

I wonder if people are aware of the railway connection of a tank called Lodestar and numbered 4093 being preserved in its original paint? GWR Star Class locomotive Lode Star is in the British national collection, is preserved in paint applied by Swindon Works upon preservation (as close to original as you could expect on a loco) and has a 4 digit number starting 40XX (4003)...

Many thanks again.

All the best,

Castle

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m83


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Hi Castle,

I take it you have seen the images of Loadstar on the following link .......... www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html# (click on British tanks, then on Surviving mkIV's and you will see Loadstar and a link to see pictures)

also, if you are doing the Tamiya model there was a recent thread about inaccuracies in the model itself, which you may wish to address.......... landships.activeboard.com/t58392858/tamiya-mk-iv-wip/ (I love threads like these!!, just wish I had that level of skill)

of course you have probably seen these already, but thought I would post just in case you havent.

I would love to see some photos of your model, during the build, or after you have completed it.

all the best Kev



-- Edited by m83 on Thursday 30th of October 2014 10:30:27 AM



-- Edited by m83 on Thursday 30th of October 2014 10:34:01 AM

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Hi Kev,

Thanks for the reply. I have seen the pictures you mention, along with many others I have seen in my internet foraging...

There is some remarkable work being done on those model threads - very informative indeed! I am not bothered about the rear roof hatches as I am going to fill the box with stores anyway. No point in fussing over stuff you won't see in my opinion (aren't I lazy!?!).

As I have built the tank with the motor - big kid I know - so I won't thin down some of the other parts as it has to survive the occasional trundle up and down no man's land* although some of the missing rivets will get done. As I usually model in 4mm scale railway subjects the change of scale to something much larger is quite refreshing! I guess that's why I want it to go too.

I am planning on displaying it in a sort of crate type thing with the tank displayed as if in a stores area in a town square with POW cans, guns, packs, webbing, crates, ammo boxes, etc all around. A bit of a contrived scene perhaps but I quite like the idea of using the model to show of some of the various weapons and tools of WWI. If there is interest in it, I will start a thread in the model section.

All the best,

Castle

*otherwise known as the lounge floor, the sofa, the bed, the desk, a 'German trench' made of DVD cases, etc, etc...

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PDA


Legend

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Castle, I'm sure I've seen Mark IV tanks with WRW stripes on the front angle of the roof. It might just be that corner, or "L" beam, but it would seem more logical for it to be the whole cab roof so that aircraft could more easily identify the tank as friendly.



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WWI in 1/72



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Hi PDA,

I agree with you on that - if they did the front, they must have done the rest surely? That patch was for aircraft supposedly anyway so just doing the edge wouldn't make sense I suppose...

Unless any natives or those that have seen the tank tell us otherwise, I guess it's going red and white as per the drawing!

Many thanks,

Castle

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