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Post Info TOPIC: But Why?


Legend

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But Why?
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I attach a photo of a dummy tank - but note a dummy specifically intended to represent a Mk I (note the wooden tail wheels) and not a British (or Australian) dummy as deployed on the Western front. I found the photo on a Russian web site so this might be Eastern front. It appears to be on some form of makeship raft?. But why? Who is it trying to fool? Or is the the 2nd Imperial Lunatics Rgt? Any ideas

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Legend

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That is a curious shot. Which website was it located on?



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Hero

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.. hummm,... well,.. I see an M1910 tunic, and several feldmutze with peaks.... they appear to be reservists..., could simply be a training prop being moved into position... it certainly isn't a combat zone of operations.....

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Legend

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Mark Hansen wrote:



That is a curious shot. Which website was it located on?



http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://ww-one.airforce.ru/equipment/ww1_dummy_tank_m.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ww-one.airforce.ru/equipment/page_01.htm&h=557&w=750&sz=106&tbnid=j6Zq8WL9bR7ptM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=140&hl=en&start=18&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtank%2B%2B%2522ww%2B1%2522%26svnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN


Beware of its captions for example there is a shot of a large multi engined bomber labeled Handley Page and believe me it aint no HP so some of the other titles may also be spurious



-- Edited by Centurion at 11:51, 2006-03-07

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Legend

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Did a quick translation through Babel Fish and it came back as "Wooden dummy tank. Mock-up will sail along the river and serves as target for the exercises in the artillery shooting". Sounds reasonable.


The dummy itself resembles some of the earliest sketches done by the Germans of the Mk. I's that appear in Hundleby and Strasheim's A7V book.



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Legend

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Mark Hansen wrote:


Did a quick translation through Babel Fish and it came back as "Wooden dummy tank. Mock-up will sail along the river and serves as target for the exercises in the artillery shooting". Sounds reasonable. The dummy itself resembles some of the earliest sketches done by the Germans of the Mk. I's that appear in Hundleby and Strasheim's A7V book.

Which suggests that if they were laying on artillery shooting practice at moving tank targets the Germans probably took the first appearance of the tank a little more seriously than has sometimes been stated.

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Brigadier

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Small astonishment for me: the apparantly original captions to these photo's on this Russian site are in Dutch! It's in the Dutch spelling of before WW2, so my guess is that these photo's originate from a Dutch newspaper or magazine. The Babelfish translation covers the original text pretty good.

Michel.



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Legend

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Centurion wrote:


Which suggests that if they were laying on artillery shooting practice at moving tank targets the Germans probably took the first appearance of the tank a little more seriously than has sometimes been stated.

Although perhaps the target practice using the wooden dummy was only arranged at local level, which wouldn't be inconsistent with the view that at higher levels the Germans didn't take it terribly seriously.

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Legend

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Roger Todd wrote:


Centurion wrote: Which suggests that if they were laying on artillery shooting practice at moving tank targets the Germans probably took the first appearance of the tank a little more seriously than has sometimes been stated. Although perhaps the target practice using the wooden dummy was only arranged at local level, which wouldn't be inconsistent with the view that at higher levels the Germans didn't take it terribly seriously.


Which takes us back to the original question - Why? Why would some local level organisation be organising an artillery shoot at a tank dummy - were they expecting a tank invasion (unlikely)? (And was there a 'local level' artillery?). More likely that the reservists would be used in the same way as the Home Guard was sometimes used in Britain during WWII exercises - to provide a foil for the regulars. Indeed I know of one exercise at Tatton Park in Cheshire when the newly formed British airborne force from Ringway (now Manchester airport) 'dropped in' and dealt with wood and canvas panzers manouvered into place by 'Dads Army'



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Hero

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Here is two more German dummy tanks.


All the best


Tim R



-- Edited by Tim R at 22:50, 2006-03-07

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2027.jpg (71.3 kb)
78_1.jpg (11.7 kb)
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Hero

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..not commonly understand by many students of this conflict was the wide avenue of flexible training, and tactical approach of each individual Korp.   This is largely due to period writers who felt a need to be emphatic about rigid "Prussian" training and discipline.  This was certainly not factual.  The truth is, though exactly armed and dressed, each Korp was responsible for their own training.  Hence, a local divisional staff, or even battalian could have arranged for the special training of their organic artillerie batteries.


The Crown Prince was in truth, an able leader, and was quick to examine tactical inovations in the field.  The same can be said of many Divisional and battalian leaders who were swift to adapt to behaviors that promised better surviability of their combat units.



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Legend

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Tim R wrote:


Here is two more German dummy tanks. All the best Tim R-- Edited by Tim R at 22:50, 2006-03-07

It seems strange that the German dummies look more like the real thing than the British ones!

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Legend

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More why and how







Australian CANVAS Tanks









1918-09 le Verguier, France  Dummy tanks used successfully by the 4th Australian Division in the attack on le Verguier in 1918-09. These tanks (10 in number) were made by the 4th Field Company Australian Engineers entirely of wood & canvas. They were camouflage painted & even had names and regimental colours added. Two eight foot diameter wheels with wide flanges supported the tanks 6 inches clear of the ground and crews of six men had no difficulty in pushing the tanks over boggy ground and trenches. Only one tank was disabled & two of the crews slightly disabled by machine gun fire.
Just how do you use dummy tanks in an attack, as opposed a decoy or deception operation ? And why would anyone take on pushing a canvas tank under machine gun fire? (slightly disabled by machine gun fire. sounds like another of those  dreadful military euphemisms like friendly fire ) Obviously didn't give a 4X

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Legend

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Mark Hansen wrote:


Tim R wrote: Here is two more German dummy tanks. All the best Tim R-- Edited by Tim R at 22:50, 2006-03-07 It seems strange that the German dummies look more like the real thing than the British ones!


See this relatively (apart from all the extra guns) British dummy




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