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Post Info TOPIC: Belgian ACs in Russia - query.


Legend

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Belgian ACs in Russia - query.
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That indispensable reference work Wikipedia naturally has an article on the Belgian Expeditionary Corps of Armoured Cars in Russia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Expeditionary_Corps_in_Russia

The text says that the Corps was equipped with Minerva armoured cars. The "infobox" says that the vehicles were Minerva and Lanchester. The caption to the photograph says it's a Mors. One of the references says that the armoured cars were Mors and Peugeot.

Wikipedia's "Belgian expert" can't  add anything to that. Can anyone here, ideally with some references?

 



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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It's worth messaging Dominique at Retrokits. Early and obscure Belgian stuff is very much his thing. Be surprised if he cant add more.

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Colonel

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I find you have to take Wikipedia with a pinch of salt some times.

Grant

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Brigadier

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Photo´s clearly show Mors and Peugeot armoured cars, but I must admit that the rear ends of these cars could be mistaken for Minerva´s. These were improvised vehicles, purposely built on Mors and Peugeot chassis for this expedition. The Belgian unit didn´t bring any Minerva´s or Lanchesters to Russia, but used those only on the Western Front. If you notice any Lanchester armoured cars around Belgian troops in Russia, then these are British supplied vehicles in Russian service.
During the turmoil of the Russian revolution, the Belgians had to leave their armoured cars and travelled back via Siberia, the Pacific and the USA. At least one Peugeot car has been captured by the Germans and features Freikorps markings (Raudi) on photo´s in Munich, 1919.
Hugues Marchand has written a good article about the Belgian Division and info on the Peugeot in German service can be found in the Tankograd book about German AC's of WW-1.

Michel.



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Legend

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 Thank you, Citizens.

I have found in B.T. White that the principal vehicles were Mors and Peugeot. What might have confused matters is that the Mors company used Minerva engines.

A pinch of salt? It's a joke.



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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.



Captain

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"The pilgrims of the Great War."



-- Edited by Valeriy67 on Wednesday 16th of December 2015 10:45:48 AM

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Legend

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Oh, how exasperating. I can't speak Russian.



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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.



Captain

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"Reizigers door de grote oorlog: de Odyssee van een Belgisch Pantserkorps 1915-1918" by August Thiry, Dirk van Cleemput 

 



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Colonel

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Are there any publications in English?

Grant

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Major

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Somebody might want to add to the wiki article which has Belgium as a "Neutral power" an odd praise for a country that had been in WW I from the start and was mostly overrun by the Germans. The country was not a part of the Entente.

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Legend

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Ah, yes. IIRC, Belgium was not permitted by the 1839 Treaty to form alliances. She was therefore an "Associated Power". It seems that the King feared that formally joining the Entente would amount to forfeiture of her neutrality, and would make things even worse in the occupied area. But hey, that's the least of Wikipedia's faults. smile



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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.



Field Marshal

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Belgians had armored cars Mors (with Minerva motor) and Peugeot. Design was the same. It is very difficult to distinguish them. 1916 near Svistelniki Peugeot was captured (later "Raudi"). In 1917 several armored cars were no longer operational. Then were Belgians of Russians one Izhorski Renault (Mgeboff type), and two Armstrong Whitwort-Fiat. Early 1918 the Belgians have their tanks destroyed in Kiev itself, so the Germans do not get it.



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