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Post Info TOPIC: October 1917 revolution "tank" or armored car


Major

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October 1917 revolution "tank" or armored car
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In the book "They Fought for the Motherland" it mentions "one disabled tank" left behind at the Winter Palace to "defend" the Provisional Government while the remaining armored cars fled during the October/November 1917 Revolution. From a book on Soviet Armor by Steve Zagoda he mentions the Russians called half tracks as half tanks or Russian type tanks. Could this possibly be the one and only Allis-Chalmers half track? Or possibly some other vehicle or did the book get it wrong? There is a picture in the book during this period with a Mgebrov-Renault, Fiat, Austin and Garford Armored cars in it. Thanks in advance.



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Major

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October 1917 revolution
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The silent 1927 movie October the Ten Days that shook the World is on youtube. It has a number of film clips of WW I era armored cars and tanks. Note there is a joke about this movie that more people were hurt in filming it than in the real October/November 1917 revolution!

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Field Marshal

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RE: October 1917 revolution "tank" or armored car
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Armoured tractor Allis-Chalmers V6 was built by Poutiloff work ONE ONLY! Fitst name: "Achtyrets", second name (by Reds): "Ilya Muromets", 3rd name "Krasny Peterburg"



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Legend

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The Allis-Chalmers B6 was marketed unsuccessfully in the US in 1915, it was too expensive to compete with other tractors. 10 were sold to Russia in 1916.

M. Kolomiets in a 1997 M-Hobby article says there were two Allis-Chalmers B6s converted by the Putilov plant.

The Allis-Chalmers wasn't the only half-track armoured vehicle built in Russia - in 1919 two Lombard-Bullock tractors were converted in Novorossiysk (on the Black Sea)

to support the White Forces during the Russian Civil War. These were captured by the Bolsheviks in 1920.

I think there's enough here for a Landships II article on the armoured half-track Russian vehicles.

Regards,

Charlie

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 18th of April 2016 01:33:32 AM



-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 18th of April 2016 01:39:21 AM

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Field Marshal

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CharlieC wrote:

 

The Allis-Chalmers B6 was marketed unsuccessfully in the US in 1915, it was too expensive to compete with other tractors. 10 were sold to Russia in 1916.

M. Kolomiets in a 1997 M-Hobby article says there were two Allis-Chalmers B6s converted by the Putilov plant.

The Allis-Chalmers wasn't the only half-track armoured vehicle built in Russia - in 1919 two Lombard-Bullock tractors were converted in Novorossiysk (on the Black Sea)

to support the White Forces during the Russian Civil War. These were captured by the Bolsheviks in 1920.

I think there's enough here for a Landships II article on the armoured half-track Russian vehicles.

Regards,

Charlie

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 18th of April 2016 01:33:32 AM



-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 18th of April 2016 01:39:21 AM


 Second picture is NO Allis-Chalmers. It is Lombard Auto Tractor-truck (no Bullock-Lombard - Lombard!), armoured by Sudostal work 1919 - in the service of White army. My friend Maxim Kolomiets know now - it was only one armoured Allis-Chalmers. 



-- Edited by Ivan on Monday 18th of April 2016 10:25:06 PM



-- Edited by Ivan on Monday 18th of April 2016 10:28:08 PM

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Legend

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Thank you Ivan for clearing that up I wasn't sure whether the online translator was mangling the original text or the original author did say there were two 

Allis-Chalmer half-track armoured cars.

Yes I did know the second image in my post was a Lombard I should have explicitly said so in the post.

I came across a reference to self-propelled guns built in South Russia for the White forces in 1919. These seem to have had a rearward pointing 120mm gun

(possibly a naval gun?). The chassis seem to have been Bullock-Lombard and Clayton half-tracks. I found a very poor image of one of these. 

Regards,

Charlie



-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 18th of April 2016 10:43:59 PM

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Field Marshal

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Charlie, the original text is from 1994. In last edition of the book wroten: only one Allis-Chalmers was armoured.

Best Regards!



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Clayton self propelled gun (made by Nev-Wilde work)



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Legend

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That's interesting - one of the Russian texts seemed to be saying the guns fitted were 120mm Naval Canet guns but the guns on the Clayton vehicles 

aren't Canet guns. They look like BL 60 Pounder guns complete with carriage and wheels - similar concept to WW2 German Sturmpanzer I.

I've attached a couple of images of the 60 Pounder and the 120mm Canet Pattern 1892 guns.

The Russian wikipedia has an article on the Clayton armoured tractor - it seems to say there was only one built armed with machine guns and a 76.2mm gun -

(now I'm really confused).

Regards,

Charlie 



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