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Post Info TOPIC: Grouser tracks and fascine on MkIV male tank?


Major

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Grouser tracks and fascine on MkIV male tank?
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Since when were the grouser/spuds on tracks used and were there Male tanks with some attached at the Battle of Cambrai in action?
I didn't found any sources, yet.

Is the combination of a Male MkIV tank with a fascine and spudded tracks possible, are there any pics, maybe?

Thanks for your help, in advance!

 

Referring to this thread the fascines were only used at the Battle of Cambrai!?
http://www.landships.activeboard.com/t62227677/fascine-questions/
So it would be wrong to paint the red/white markings on the front? They were attached later on, in 1918 I think?
But I think, in my opinion, it would make sense to widen the tracks, if you put tons of wood on your tank, don't it?confuse



-- Edited by Wollhodden on Sunday 12th of November 2017 10:00:08 PM



-- Edited by Wollhodden on Monday 13th of November 2017 05:52:56 PM

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Major

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I might have figured it out!

h48 hypathia w. spuds -knocked out on23rd November near Fontaine.jpg

This picture shows "H48 Hypatia" with spuds attached.
Knocked out at the 23rd November 1917 near Fontaine-Notre-Dame.
So it is not unlikely, that it had carried fascines at the beginning of the attack?!

And by the way, there`s a colour scheme and decals for the "H45 Hyacinth" included at the 1/35 Tamiya Mk.IV Male model biggrin



I hope it would be useful for you in the future.
If there's something to add, I'm looking forward to a nice discussion!



UPDATE:

Here's the proof (also with date, gorgeous!)

diary attaching fascines h battalion.jpg



-- Edited by Wollhodden on Monday 13th of November 2017 01:03:36 PM

 

Another source:
B28 "Black Arrow II" (also incuded scheme in Tamiya kit)
black arrow II.jpg



-- Edited by Wollhodden on Monday 13th of November 2017 01:45:42 PM

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Legend

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It is always more satisfying to find your own answers I think, but you can't actually tell from this view that Black Arrow II carried a fascine. It did in fact, but don't assume every tank that fought at Cambrai did.

Gwyn

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Major

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Gwyn Evans wrote:

It is always more satisfying to find your own answers I think, but you can't actually tell from this view that Black Arrow II carried a fascine. It did in fact, but don't assume every tank that fought at Cambrai did.

Gwyn


 

 

Wait...

Here you'll find the account of the tanks of B Battalion training with fascines for the Battle of Cambrai:
http://tank100.com/training-combat/war-diaries-1-6-november-1917/
black arrow II training2.jpg

..and here you'll get the info about the Tank numbers (and their further history):
https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/lists/mkivtanks/world-war-one-british-mark-iv-tank-2001---2099
black arrow II cv.jpg

wink



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Legend

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Yes, I know these. But they do not say that 8040, 2080, 2869, 2874 and 2872 carried a fascine, only that these tanks took part in an exercise involving laying and crossing fascines.

However, you can see from the front of 2080 that it is fitted with fascine hooks.

Gwyn

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Major

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Well, there no photos, but usually the crews that practise the handling will also get those done in action.
Beside of the preparations took place on the Tanks which were used in training.
This might not be 100% safe, due not documented that obvious.
There was a documentation for sure, but if that had survived the last 100 years?!



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Legend

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Photo showing fascine hooks



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Major

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Thanks you, again!

I just wonder a bit, I only saw this costruction before:
fascine hooks on cab (1).jpgfascine hooks on cab (2).jpg

Ho did it work with the hooks?
Were there 2 single strains of chain slung aroud the fascine and fixed behind the drivers cabin?
At Tanks with that "horns" attached it seems to be secured at the front hook (as documented in other threads..)
That seems so be more stabilize (and it also could be fixed more forward?)

Are there other examples?
Was this maybe the "early Mode" and later the cribs were loaded on Tanks issued with "horns"?



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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The parts shown in your last post are actually camouflage brackets, which would be used to secure a frame for camouflage nets. They have been removed when the unditching rails were introduced, as both would interfere. The fascine hooks like in the picture posted by Gwyn are the only known way to attach the fascine.

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Major

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thorst wrote:

The parts shown in your last post are actually camouflage brackets, which would be used to secure a frame for camouflage nets. They have been removed when the unditching rails were introduced, as both would interfere. The fascine hooks like in the picture posted by Gwyn are the only known way to attach the fascine.


 

 

Aah, ok I see!
I minded that those brackets were, somewere reffered as faschine hooks (to hold them in place and secure), so this was wrong.

Are there more pictures of "the real ones"? Ididn't see them befor (maybe I'd overlooked it)

But thanks for the info!



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You can see them on a lot of tanks during the battle of Cambrai. If you want high-quality pictures, I recommend Vol.1 of the Tankograd Beute-Tanks books. Both of them are a great source, even if you don't want to build a captured, German tank.



-- Edited by thorst on Thursday 16th of November 2017 07:04:49 PM

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Major

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Thanks I will have a look on them!

Just the cover is great, gives a good view of the hooks.
https://www.tankograd.com/cms/website.php?id=/en/beute-tanks-vol1.htm#
(But also the other pictures in the preview are fantastic, I think I'll get a copy!)

It seems, that the opening of the hooks are on the upper side, didn't expect that!
How did that work, the chains were comming from above and would be released from the backside. So it would make more sense (to me) if the opening would be downwarts!?

1003 01 Beute.jpg

-- Edited by Wollhodden on Thursday 16th of November 2017 08:47:04 PM



-- Edited by Wollhodden on Thursday 16th of November 2017 09:26:05 PM

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Lieutenant-Colonel

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Have another look at the CAD-renderings I posted here:

landships.activeboard.com/t58344032/mark-iv-3d-cad-drawings/

It is not an actual hook, it is a bent piece of metal which fits into groves cut into a railway sleeper which is in turn worked into the fascine. This only serves as an anchoring point for the fascine such that it does not shake around, the hooks themselves do not carry any loads besides preventing the fascine to slide down the rails.

It takes a while to compare the photographs to figure it out exactly, but it all makes sense.

Thorsten

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Major

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thorst wrote:

Have another look at the CAD-renderings I posted here:

landships.activeboard.com/t58344032/mark-iv-3d-cad-drawings/

It is not an actual hook, it is a bent piece of metal which fits into groves cut into a railway sleeper which is in turn worked into the fascine. This only serves as an anchoring point for the fascine such that it does not shake around, the hooks themselves do not carry any loads besides preventing the fascine to slide down the rails.

It takes a while to compare the photographs to figure it out exactly, but it all makes sense.

Thorsten


 I Think I got it, thanks according your great CAD renderings!

DSC02582.JPG
work in progress....biggrin



-- Edited by Wollhodden on Thursday 16th of November 2017 10:16:17 PM

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Major

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I just found this reference:
fascine hooks.jpg

It's "D51 Deborah"



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