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Post Info TOPIC: WW1 Canadian Armoured Autocar


Brigadier

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RE: WW1 Canadian Armoured Autocar
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OK. I have some photos for you. Will scan them for you shortly.

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Major

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Haven't gotten any further with this project yet...
but I will be posting the progress (here) as it happens.
Still waiting and hoping for some more reference material,
and still trying to gather photos of chassis's.

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Major

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yes I have that book...but thanks anyway

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Sergeant

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From the booklet "The Armoured Autocar In Canadian Service" written by Cameron Pulsifer , published by Service Publications Ottawa Ont.....



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Sergeant

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I'll have a look and post some pics or diagrams



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Major

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yes, I can wait...this project is in its early planning stages right now anyway.
thanks for anything you can offer Tim!

and a thankyou/shout out to Phil R who has sent me his Museum pics!! much appreciated

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Brigadier

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i dont have any photos of our restoration to hand but can get hold of them and scan them for you. it will be a couple of weeks if you can wait.

Tim

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Major

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Hello all...

first off, big thanks to Charlie C and Phil R for their help so far
and directing me to this Forum.

For those who don't know me, I am an artist and Paper Modeler.
I have designed a number of paper Models, mostly aircraft, a PT Boat, some small Cars and a number of WW2 accessories.

I am currently in the planning stages of producing a 1/12 scale kit of the Autocar Armoured Car.

Since I have VERY little knowledge of WW1 vehicles (or anything older than WW2 for that matter)
I am relying on all the reference material I can find.

I need photos, plans, diagrams, etc of the Autocar Chassis and its parts
as well as the construction of the Armoured Car body.

I have collected a number of photos of the Car in the Ottawa War Museum (hopefully Phil R will be sending me some more).
I have also managed to find a few photos of restored Autocar Trucks.

Unfortunately not enough undercarriage and chassis details.
I'd also like to see some shots of the drivetrain and Motor.
I also have no understand of the subframework for the armoured body.

The more I can see, the more accurate I can be with my Model design.
1/12 scale is allowing me to build in a lot of detail, and represent many elements with a little more accuracy than is usually present in smaller scale paper models.

Anyway, I appreciate any help anyone can offer.
Please feel free to contact me directly if you have anything to share.
(you can reach me through my Paper Modeling website www.cutnadfold.info)

 

Even though this is still in the planning stages, I have already started design work of the basic Frame and did a test build recently (to judge scale size, print sizes, etc).

 

AutocarTestBuild02.jpg

 

 



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Sergeant

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A clip from You Tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8evqTow8C3k

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Sergeant

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Mike , I'm thrilled to hear from you. Yes I was refering to Cameron's article. He is now in the process of writing a book on the Canadian Machine Gun Corps , he would be most apreciative to hear from you . His contact info is ..... cameron.pulsifer@gmail.com
His phone is 613-565-5225.
I just called him , he wants you to contact him.
Also I am in contact with a Tom Tweney who has aquired some of Begin's artifacts such as a signed training manual , medals etc.
My info is ...... lesfowler2001@yahoo.ca
604-936-2488


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Private

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Hi Les , are you referring to the article Death at Licourt by Cameron Pulsifer? I too have read it. My great great uncle Was Osmond Begin who was killed on Mar 25 1918 while in the same autocar as Major Battersby. I have a copy of the letter from gunner C. J Archer who was the lone survivor of Battersby's car to Mrs Begin about how he was killed that day at Licourt. It is quite possible that the dead gunner shown in the photo is that of Osmond Begin as he was the first to get hit according to the account. If you have any more info I would certainly be interested. I understand Cameron Pulsifer is now retired from the War Museum so I am unable to contact him.



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Brigadier

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Hmmm. Seems to be ok now. Have another go.

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Sergeant

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Tim , it seems your video is missing in the link provided ??

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Brigadier

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Hi Les

I am not sure if you have seen this, but here is some film of our Autocar. The 2 cylinder engine has a very distinctive sound and this is exactly how the armoured version would have sounded .

http://www.hmvftv.com/watch/feedfdeaab192ead4ac0/Autocar-UF21

Tim

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Sergeant

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Great photos Tim , glad to see your still at it !!
I look forward to seeing more in future.
Les

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Brigadier

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I thought that i had posted these plans of the Autocar, but i must have forgotten to do so. They are from the civilian manual, but the chassis will be the same as the military one. Anyway, i hope they are of interest to someone.

Tim





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Sergeant

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Not a problem, I hope you had a great holiday. The photos are great, they are exactly the sort of references I'm looking for. My wish list of references would include shots of the rear axle and suspension from behind, and of the drive train from below. Shots of how the steering and brakes are hooked up would also be must appreciated. Just out of curiosity, is the transmission part of the rear axle?

You do bring up an interesting point about engine access. Photos of the the armopured Autocar at the Canadian War Museum show a couple of hatches on the rear deck. one of which is behind the driver. Could that be how that got at the engine?

Thanks again for the help.

Richard


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Brigadier

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If there are any specific questions do please let me know, as i will be with the truck in a few weeks time and can take some specific photos for you.

There are not many differences between the armoured and GS version, although access to the engine on the armoured version is a bit of a mystery to me. The non armoured versions have a handle on the side of the cab which if you lean on causes the seat to jump up. The armoured version does not appear to have this and i am curious as to how the engine can be reached. Similarly the floor of the cab lifts up easily on the non armoured versions which you need to do regularly to repack the water pump. The floor is pimpled steel plate.

The controls are three pedals on the floor (in the normal configuration) a hand throttle on top of the steering column and gear lever and hand brake to the right of the driver. These should be the same on the armoured version. There are no guages, dials or anything mounted on the scuttle. The armoured version does have the scuttle inside the armour as it would be superfluous.

The wooden steering wheel is an exact replica of the original using the original metal spokes.

The wheels are the same as the originals, only ours were made for pneumatics, unlike the armoured version which had solids of course.

Tim (too)


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Brigadier

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Sorry to take so long to get back with these. I have been out of the country for the Holidays. Anyway, here are a few photos of our Autocar restoration that might be of interest to you.















Tim (too)

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Sergeant

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Yes, defintiely the armoured car version. What I'd be looking for is shots of the chassis, and engine, so ideally if you had the body off the frame at any point, and took pictures then, those would be the best. Specifically, I'm looking for shots of the frame, front and rear axles, Engine and transmission, ideally, as seen from below. From above:shots of the driver's compartment, showing controls, and instrumentation, if any.

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Brigadier

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Yes, no problem at all. I cant get to the photos for a few days but will post whatever might be helpful. Tell me exactly what you want and i will see if i already have them. If i dont i will go and take some more photos for you. I presume that it is the armoured car version that you are interested in?

Tim   

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Sergeant

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Tim -
Do you have any more shots of that Autocar truck from other angles? There seems to be plenty of shots of the exterior of the Autocar AC, but some references for the chassis and driver's position would be very useful.


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Brigadier

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Got it. Wonderful clip. Many thanks. I never knew that such film existed and it is wonderful to see.

Tim (too)

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Sergeant

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Oh ya  , Bill if you ever do remember where you found the clip  you used in  your youtube  video  please tell me biggrin
Les


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Sergeant

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Your quick on the draw Bill ....
Tim , the film clip "Canadians at Mons" is the 4th one from the left in the "After the Armistice" section. The Armoured Car in at the end of the clip , enjoy !
Les

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Commander in Chief

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Tim

the film is called 'Canadians at Mons'

http://www.nfb.ca/enclasse/ww1/index.html

if the link doesnt work, its in the 'Postwar Period' 'After the Armistice'.

There's a different film of the Autocar posted on my youtube page.

Incidentally, Ironsides should like this Canadians at Mons film, as it shows a correctly hitched team pulling artillery.

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Brigadier

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Les Fowler wrote:

That photo was taken in Mons and can also be seen in motion as it was filmed during the parade .
Go to the Canadian Archives motion picture section.



Les

I cant find this. Could you send me a link please.

Thanks

Tim



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Brigadier

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On the subject of Autocars, i thought that you might be interetested in seeing this picture of our Autocar at Buckingham Palace earlier this year (we were told to bring our own drip tray!). Ours was made in 1917 and was one of about 600 purchased by the British Army. It came back from France in about 1990 and we have restored it as a GS lorry although it was quite probably a water tank truck.




Hi Les!

Tim (too)

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Legend

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A bit late in the day:

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/mediawiki-1.5.5/index.php?title=Canadian_Machine_Gun_Corps

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Sergeant

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Service Publications has now printed the booklet on the Canadian Armoured Autocar written by Dr. Cameron Pulsifer of the Canadian War Museum.
Les


http://www.servicepub.com/

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Sergeant

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Here are two photos of my grandfather ( 3rd from left,standing ) in front of Autocar in Bonn , spring of 1919 during occupation duty.

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Sergeant

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I have found out the details of the damaged Canadian Autocar and the dead soldiers.
The car was commanded by Major William Battersby 1st CMMGB.
Mar.25th 1918 at the village of Licourt an artillery shell exploded close to the car forcing it off the road killing or wounding the crew.
The Car was looted by German troops before these photos were taken by German Army Photographers.
Only one body of the 5 lost was recovered, a Pte.John Cuthbert Begin is buried in Pargny cemetery on the Somme.
Lost besides Battersby was Pte.Donald Douglas Brooks, Pte.Robert Walker Connell , and Sgt. Cyril Vidal whos names are commemerated on the Vimy Memorial at Vimy Ridge .

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Sergeant

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That photo was taken in Mons and can also be seen in motion as it was filmed during the parade .
Go to the Canadian Archives motion picture section.

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Legend

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To round out this thread I enclose a picyure of Autocar survivors in a Canadian victory parade in Belgium shortly after the Armitistice

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canada23.jpeg (29.6 kb)
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Hero

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Hello Gents


   Here are two drawings of the Autocar, this may inspire some one to scratchbuild one.


All the Best


Tim R



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Sergeant

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Amazing photos Tim , where did you get them. I have never seen these before !!!!!!

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Legend

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Yes, as I posted earlier they took really heavy casualties in the German 1918 offensive. A number acting as rear guard fought to the last man. Their crews were very vunerable given the lack of armour above the waist level. They were machine gun carriers not real armoured vehicles and should have been replaced long before 1918 but some civil servamt or politician probably decided that this was too expensive! Nothing changes.

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Hero

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Hello Gents


 I have attached a few disturbing, but all so true photos of the Canadian AC.


All the Best


Tim R



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w76.jpg (94.2 kb)
w76a.jpg (116.5 kb)
w76b.jpg (113.7 kb)
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Captain

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les,


prodding the big companies (that work in plastic) seems nearly impossible. one might have better luck with the smaller companies that work in resin, such as Modelkrak. however, how one contacts them is anybody's guess.



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Legend

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About 25 years ago someone did a braille scale white metal job (they also did a whippet and others) but you'd only want want more than one of their models if you were an avid coarse fisherman and short of sinkers. Given adequate drawings I'd think that a 1/35 or 1/32 scratch build using p[lasticard ought to be possible if one  could canabilise the wheels from some other kit.

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