Landships II

siquisiri · Corporal

Batttle of Cambrai Mark IV Q

Mark Hansen · Legend

A good place to start would be http://www.landships.freeservers.com/BritSerials.htm. There is a fair bit of info on tank markings from before, during and after Cambrai.

One female example would be "Flirt II". Her serial No. is 2179, not always visible in photos and probably�in yellow. Her battalion No. was F4 which she carried on the front right and left horns, on the rear fuel tank armour and on the cab roof. The name was on the front sloping armour ahead of the cab and she carried a playing card (4 of hearts) ahead of her battalion�No. on the front right and left horns.

EDIT: The serial No. was carried on the rear horns left and right.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 01:32, 2007-02-22

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Could you please point me at a photograph that shows the 2179 number? According to my research no Mark IVs had numbers in the 21xx range. If you're right I have a bit of a problem to sort out!

Mark Hansen · Legend

The only photo I've seen is in Richard Pullen's book "The Landships of Lincoln", p. 103. The number isn't very clear in that photo. I assumed the number that it received when it was restored was the original number.

Tonys · Field Marshal

Gwyn Evans wrote:

Could you please point me at a photograph that shows the 2179 number? According to my research no Mark IVs had numbers in the 21xx range. If you're right I have a bit of a problem to sort out!

Gwyn,
In�the book "Following the tanks -�Cambrai" there aren't any 21xx serial numbers, but there are a lot of tanks that do not have a number recorded against them (including Flirt II), so other sources may show numbers that are not recorded on the main list.
Tony

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Thanks. Will try to track down a copy of the book by Pullen. Does it give a source for the photo? I'm aware there are a number of Flirt II pics in the IWM collection. None of the ones I know show a serial clearly, but I note the comment about it being painted yellow - and I know that yellow often shows as black in WW1 era photos.

On the 21xx problem, I should say I have mapped out a likely distribution of Mk IV numbers after collecting a huge number from War Diaries, photographs, personal effects (commanders' notebooks etc), battle history sheets etc. I have then tried to reconcile that back to known production by certain manufacturers, and to the total production numbers claimed in primary sources at The National Archives. If I have a whole new series - 21xx - I will have too many tanks in comparison to the total production. As it is I still have too many, but I'm only 50 out.

Gwyn

Mark Hansen · Legend

Gwyn Evans wrote:

Thanks. Will try to track down a copy of the book by Pullen. Does it give a source for the photo? I'm aware there are a number of Flirt II pics in the IWM collection. None of the ones I know show a serial clearly, but I note the comment about it being painted yellow - and I know that yellow often shows as black in WW1 era photos.

On the 21xx problem, I should say I have mapped out a likely distribution of Mk IV numbers after collecting a huge number from War Diaries, photographs, personal effects (commanders' notebooks etc), battle history sheets etc. I have then tried to reconcile that back to known production by certain manufacturers, and to the total production numbers claimed in primary sources at The National Archives. If I have a whole new series - 21xx - I will have too many tanks in comparison to the total production. As it is I still have too many, but I'm only 50 out.

Gwyn

Fortunately, this photo is one of the few in the book that does get a source. He credits it as being from The Tank Museum, Bovington. However, there is no number listed for it. The WD number is very hard to make out at all, the tone of it being so close to the colour of the side of Flirt. I've attached a scan of the photo from the book.

I (and I'm sure many others) would be very interested in seeing�your list. Are you planning on publishing, either electronic or paper?

P.S.: Of course the area where the number is located is near the spine and hard to scan but it should still be clear enough.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 07:19, 2007-02-27

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Mark,

Thanks very much for the photo (tho' I'll confess to having seen before) and further info. As you say, the number is very hard to read at all from a jpeg, so I may have to invest in a proper photographic print or at least study one when I'm next at Bovington. The IWM also has at least three, probably four, Flirt II photos incidentally.

At present my work is very much a research project with no publication plans. I still have more gaps, queries and places to look than even I might wish! I have to be a little careful in releasing info as Mike Cooper (whose name I've seen mentioned on this Forum) and I shared alot of material - he added much to my lists and I think I added quite a bit to his too. However our agreement was that the material was for personal research only. So whilst I can help out with individual questions where the information needed comes from my research alone I am honour bound not to release Mike's material without his permission.