Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Julian strutting his stuff

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Just found some nice photos of Julian "strutting his stuff" in Blackpool. See www.rossallbeach.co.uk/loostrenchesww1p.htm.

Unfortunately you can't save the photos or the web page - GRRRR!!!!!

Mark Hansen · Legend

Gwyn Evans wrote:

... Unfortunately you can't save the photos or the web page - GRRRR!!!!!

Yes you can, after a fashion. I didn't get the middle picture because I already have a better copy.

P.S.: However... This B***** FORUM!!! That's the last time I give IT praise!!!! It took me 5 attempts and then I had to add the pictures one at a time.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 11:16, 2007-04-09

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 11:16, 2007-04-09

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 11:18, 2007-04-09

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Ah - that's better. Thanks Mark!

Centurion · Legend

Mark

Your first picture isn't of Julian at Blackpool, its from a post card issued in honour of the return of Sergeant John Collins VC DCM to Merthyr Tydfl in (old) South Wales and is probably at Cyfathfa Park. It appears in the photos of the Royal Welch Fusiliers. Whether or not it is Julian is a moot point.
http://www.rwfphotos.co.uk/page27.html
�and in other sites such as
www.alangeorge.co.uk/cyfarthfa_and_the_Park.htm

In this later case the photo was supplied by Brian Collins
a descendent
John Collins won his VC in Palestine.

This is a good example of the confusion between touring tanks and presentation tanks as a Mk IV female was presented to Merthyr Tydfl and displayed at Cyfathfa Park until 1940. Some sources link this to John Collins� whilst displaying a totally different Mk IV female to the one that was actualy at Cyfatha!

Mark Hansen · Legend

Centurion wrote:

Mark

Your first picture isn't of Julian at Blackpool, its from a post card issued in honour of the return of Sergeant John Collins VC DCM to Merthyr Tydfl in (old) South Wales and is probably at Cyfathfa Park. It appears in the photos of the Royal Welch Fusiliers. Whether or not it is Julian is a moot point.
http://www.rwfphotos.co.uk/page27.html
�and in other sites such as
www.alangeorge.co.uk/cyfarthfa_and_the_Park.htm

In this later case the photo was supplied by Brian Collins
a descendent
John Collins won his VC in Palestine.

This is a good example of the confusion between touring tanks and presentation tanks as a Mk IV female was presented to Merthyr Tydfl and displayed at Cyfathfa Park until 1940. Some sources link this to John Collins� whilst displaying a totally different Mk IV female to the one that was actualy at Cyfatha!

Yes, sorry about that. I realised that I had already seen the photo at the site Gwyn posted about but in a better form and I did get it from the Cyfartha Park site. Whoever made the postcard that appears on the Blackpool site took that photo and added the 'Blackpool's Tank Bank, "Julian.- Feb 18-22, 1918' caption to the postcard.
There is a postmark visible on the Cyfartha picture but I can only make out the last few characters in the place name "ARTHEN".

Centurion · Legend

CAMARTHEN - the county in which Merthyr was located in 1918. Probably someone sent the card to somebody in Blackpool?

Centurion · Legend

Interesting dating for the Blackpool visit. The week before Julian was in Edinburgh. Whilst clearly not imposible Edinburgh to Blackpool is not a particularly logical move (unless one is playing the tank version of Mornington Crescent). One wonders how the tank tours were planned and scheduled.
A further interesting thing is that in Blackpool the name Julian has been added to the bottom of the front plate whilst shots in Scotland from where it came show this not to be present (the clearest view is in the clip for which there is a link in the first posting of this thread, especially when viewed full screen) but I also have a shot taken in Dundee (the week before Edinburgh) that fails to show the name in this position. One wonders why someone felt the need to add the name when the tank came back to England.

Gwyn Evans · Legend

I'm afraid that Carmarthen (not Camarthen) was not the county where Merthyr Tydfil was located in 1918. In 1918 Merthyr Tydfil was in Glamorganshire. Carmarthen (or Caerfyrddin in Welsh) was and is still the county town of Carmarthenshire.

These days the park in Merthyr is usually spelt Cyfarthfa (note the extra "f"). The name Cyfartha as it appears on the photo of the Mk IV Female is I think an attempt at making the name easier for the English tongue. The Cyfarthfa Park museum has a splendid model of Julian in silver.

I should add that I didn't believe that that particular photo was (a) of Julian or (b) in Blackpool. (I don't always believe captions either.) The other two I believe to be Blackpool and both are new to me. The interesting thing about the first photo is the caption added to advertise the Blackpool tank day. This suggests that stock photos were used and captions added for the next event. All the more reason to heed Centurion's warning on captions.

The name Julian on the hull front is visible in photos taken of it in Pontypridd. Unfortunately I don't have a date for this visit.

Centurion · Legend

Gwyn Evans wrote:

I'm afraid that Carmarthen (not Camarthen) was not the county where Merthyr Tydfil was located in 1918. In 1918 Merthyr Tydfil was in Glamorganshire. Carmarthen (or Caerfyrddin in Welsh) was and is still the county town of Carmarthenshire. Ohoops - living in the Marches that is a mistake I shouldn't have made.

These days the park in Merthyr is usually spelt Cyfarthfa (note the extra "f"). The name Cyfartha as it appears on the photo of the Mk IV Female is I think an attempt at making the name easier for the English tongue. The Cyfarthfa Park museum has a splendid model of Julian in silver. Possibly part of current moves to move back to original spelling (as also in Ireland and Scotland) all the old references I've found omit the last f

I should add that I didn't believe that that particular photo was (a) of Julian or (b) in Blackpool. (I don't always believe captions either.) The other two I believe to be Blackpool and both are new to me. The interesting thing about the first photo is the caption added to advertise the Blackpool tank day. This suggests that stock photos were used and captions added for the next event. Unfortunately there is a problem with the theory in this case. The Home coming of John Collins was months after Blackpool tank day. The annotation was possibly retrospective. If Cyfarthfa has a model of Julian it would suggest that this tank did vist Merthyr. �All the more reason to heed Centurion's warning on captions.

The name Julian on the hull front is visible in photos taken of it in Pontypridd. Unfortunately I don't have a date for this visit. But cetainly after Blackpool�as I have a complete list of venues up to that time.

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Perhaps stock photos with captions added were used as souvenirs rather than adverts.