Landships II

James H · Legend

Schneider Replica at Saumur?

Paul · Sergeant

Used at a carroussel? What big thing was this? Or is the replica smaller than the real Schneider? Amazing.

Have fun, children!

Centurion · Legend

In this case it probably means a circular parade. I think a Carrousel was originally a circular riding track to allow townees to exercise thert horses - bit like Rotten Row in London (the original fairground ride has horses going round and round in imitation)

The wooden Schnieder appears to have been built on a non Holt tractor and looks about 2/3 scale

James H · Legend

Carrousel is what Saumur calls its annual Open Day when the working Tanks are on display.

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

Yes, there is a replica Schneider in Saumur (they got a real thing as well). It is built on a sort of caterpillar drive-train (if I remember it correctly), and actually made from wood!� It� has been used as a� prop in some movie, but then been donated to Saumur.

And the Dutch are may confusing the Scheider in Saumur with the S:t Chamond. The S:t Chamond now there was for many years standing in Aberdeen Proving grounds in the US, in pretty bad shape. But then they returned it to France, and the guys at Saumur has done a wonderful job in restoring it! I think their aim is to make it a runner - like the Schneider.

Phil R · Captain

This replica schneider and replicas of other tanks are covered very well in these two documents:

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_WW1_tanks.pdf

and

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_FT-17.pdf

the FT17 one also covers the 6-tonner and the Russki Reno

James H · Legend

I thought the Schneider and St. Chamond were both at APG from 1919 until they were returned in 1987 - a long time for "testing and evaluation". According to Trevor Larkum they were sent back to France together.

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

That is maybe so. I wouldn't swear on it. I KNOW for a fact that the S:t Chamond come from the US. But regarding the Schneider... confused

well, anymore hard info out there?

Centurion · Legend

A St Chammond was presented by the French Government to Vascar College in the US in 1919. There is a photo of the ladies of Vascar sitting on it. Is this the tank that ended up at Aberdeen? If not anuone know what happened to it.

J Fullerton · Captain

That's Vassar, not Vascar.� Poughkeepsie, NY is a ways from Aberdeen, Md but not too far from West Point.

http://vcencyclopedia.vassar.edu/index.php/The_French_Tank

"After residing two decades on the Vassar campus, the somewhat rusty vehicle was towed away and cut up for scrap metal, some of which was perhaps refashioned into new weapons for a new World War."

Same fate as Nixe 2, a WW2 scrap metal drive.

James H · Legend

The Schneider & St. C were definitely together at Aberdeen. This is�a photo of them on display. They look in decent condition despite being al fresco for 70 years; presumably they were given a coat of paint of some kind. Apparently they were shipped back to Le Havre on the container ship Atlantic Compass.

Eric · Colonel

Hello,

I think that I can enlighten this discussion a little bit.
In the museum at Saumur, there are 2 "Schneider". The first one, which was the subject of the walkaround that I sent to Landship, is the real one, but as far as I know, it stay in the museum because it cannot move by himself.
The second one was built for a movie : Un long dimanche de fiancaille (year 2000 ?). It is made of wood and was built on a bulldozer basis. I guess it is still functionnal and can go to the carroussel which is a show at Saumur, the 3rd week-end of July.

Hope my explanation are clear enough.

All the best

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

I stand corrected.

James H · Legend

I'm sure that the Schneider is a runner. The FT 17 definitely is. Here are a couple of photos of a Carrousel, and the Schneider suspension looks like the original.

Mind you, I have seen claims that the Mk IV and V at Bovington are still running, and they aren't.

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

Yes, I am also quite convinced that the Schneider is a runner. If I remember it correctly it says so on the info plaque. And the interior - that is available for you to see - is quite complete, with engine, controls and all. And I doubt if it's the wooden mockup on the photo from the Carrousel, as it is pretty short - that's the thing that gives it away: otherwise it's well done.

Eric · Colonel

Hello,

I didn't know that it was running (It was not running for the last Carroussel).
But, I confirm that the one on the picture is the real one. The "fake" one is grey and, yes, shorter.

All the best

James H · Legend

I haven't seen that film, but this is what the International Movie Database has to say in its goofs department:

Anachronisms: During the attack on the story of Manech's self inflicted wound, a tank can be seen. While tanks were ready for use before 1917, they were not used, by the French, until April 1917 on the Aisne offensive.

Perhaps we should start a WW1 film bloopers section.

Phil R · Captain

"A Very Long Engagement" is a good film. I saw it some time ago, when it came out. As far as I can remember, 'the tank' is a FT 17, not a CA1.

Is it more likely that the replica was built during the time when the museum didn't have a real CA1 to display? I think so

James H · Legend

Phil R wrote:

"A Very Long Engagement" is a good film. I saw it some time ago, when it came out. As far as I can remember, 'the tank' is a FT 17, not a CA1.

Is it more likely that the replica was built during the time when the museum didn't have a real CA1 to display? I think so

Yes, that seems to be the implication of the original Dutch explanation.

Eric · Colonel

Hello,

May be I made a mistake regarding the name of the movie

but I am sure that this tank was made for a movie. I have to check for which one.

All the best

J Fullerton · Captain

Phil R wrote:
Is it more likely that the replica was built during the time when the museum didn't have a real CA1 to display? I think so

If the real CA1 was returned in 1987 then it would have gotten there in time for a 2004 movie. Though the replica may have been built for the Museum's own display long before 1987, rather than for the movie. (edit: Oops, I missed that it was really an FT17 in the movie, so the schneider replica definitely wasn't made for the film!)

Having seen the apalling condition that Aberdeen's Mark IV and Whippet are in, I'm sure that refurbishing the Schneider was a monumental task, and getting it running even more so...if it really is in running condition by now.

�

-- Edited by J Fullerton at 04:01, 2007-06-14

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

I have now returned to my documentation from my visit to Saumur. And now I can tell that:

Their mock Schneider is built on the chassis of a CD 6 Bulldozer.
It was used in the film "La Neige et le Feu".

James H · Legend

Well done, Peter. That sounds like the same dozer as Peter Jackson's Mk IV.

I'd be interested to know what it does in the film, because the story is set in France in 1944, after D-Day,�and is described as "an emotional drama". Please don't tell me they get it working and use it against the Germans . . .

This calls for a trip to Blockbuster.

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

Oops! That could very well be my weak french. When I recheck my note from the plaque by the mock Schneider, it says that equipment from Saumur has been used in that film, but this vehicle couldn't surely not have been used in a movie portraying 1944...