Landships II

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Help: from what gun?


Field Marshal

Status: Offline
Posts: 456
Date:
Help: from what gun?
Permalink   


I got these photos from a Frenchman, Fabien Clesse, who found it on a WW1 Battlefield, and he want's help to identify what it is. He says it's "certainly a piece of artillery gun".

My guess is that's it's perhaps an earth spade (don't know if that's the correct term) that sits at the end of the trail, and that helps to reduce the recoil movement.

Is it? And in that case: from what gun? I'm stumped here...

Attachments
__________________
/Peter Kempf


Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Date:
Permalink   

Difficult question, hmmm! Guess it's from a German gun. Maybe the 15cm sFH 13. I think French guns don't have this loopeholed "earthspade". But can not adduce an evidence for that.

Look: http://www.landships.freeservers.com/jpegs/lfh1302.jpg, the lower gun has a perforated whatever-thing. But this is, I suppose no real evidence. What measures got this thing on the picture? Maybe this can help to unravel the mystery.

-- Edited by Paul at 20:00, 2007-06-11

__________________

[...]
zu Hause seyn ist mein Verdruß /
ich liebe den Canonen-Schuß
und Feuer-volle Bomben.
(J.G. Albinus "Obrister-Leutenant")



Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Date:
Permalink   

Stupid me. The whatever-thing is a "Schwanzblechträger". It's betoken on the upper picture. But how to translate this word? Tail-plate-carrier? Maybe it is that piece.



__________________

[...]
zu Hause seyn ist mein Verdruß /
ich liebe den Canonen-Schuß
und Feuer-volle Bomben.
(J.G. Albinus "Obrister-Leutenant")



Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 3872
Date:
Permalink   

Schwanz means a number of things, not all of them suitable for discussion here. One of them is tail (of an animal) or trail of a gun. Blech is tin, sheet-iron, or sheet metal, and Träger is carrier, support, beam, pillar, anything that implies supporting or bearing something. Puddem together and waddaya got? A trail plate beam. This doesn't necessarily make us any wiser. I realise that. A military person would probably have the precise nomenclature.

__________________

"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.



Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Date:
Permalink   

Yes, Schwanz got also a meaning, that is not the right one for this forum. But in German everything, that dangles at the behind of something - not only by animals-, can be called so. (Sometimes things on the front also, ups!). Maybe we can say, it is a beam, to cover the skid, or spade or whatever it is called. Right?

But still we are not sure, to what guns it belongs to.

-- Edited by Paul at 20:30, 2007-06-12

__________________

[...]
zu Hause seyn ist mein Verdruß /
ich liebe den Canonen-Schuß
und Feuer-volle Bomben.
(J.G. Albinus "Obrister-Leutenant")



Field Marshal

Status: Offline
Posts: 456
Date:
Permalink   

Fabien has emailed me some more info, plus a photo of another item found, superimposed on a photo he saw on this site.

I think it's sure that we ARE talking about a German gun. Quote from Fabiens mail: "I find it in the Meuse-Argonne Offensive country, near Montfaucon. It's probably a german or an austro-hungarian gun. It's heavy ! (I have not yet take it back home...), probably for a big caliber (155 cm ?)".

The part shown here is part of the dial sight. (On all guns, the dial sight is removable, only put there when firing, and in some cases with super heavy guns put there just for sighting, and removed each time the gun is discharged, to prevent injury to the optics.)

Judging from Fabiens new info I would say that Paul is right: it's probably a 15.5cm sFH 13. I will se if I can find a photo showiing the earth spade. (What IS the proper english term?) Or maybe, maybe from a 21 cm Mörser: they had this strange system of TWO earth spades.

-- Edited by Peter Kempf at 20:28, 2007-06-12

Attachments
__________________
/Peter Kempf


Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Date:
Permalink   

But look, Peter, on the foto of the 21cm Mörser the thing, we talk about is more rectangular than this one on your foto. I guess, it is also not an "earth spade". It has the abandonment to protect this "earth spade" or the coupler when the gun is hauled.

Someone any idea what this thing is really about?

Attachments
__________________

[...]
zu Hause seyn ist mein Verdruß /
ich liebe den Canonen-Schuß
und Feuer-volle Bomben.
(J.G. Albinus "Obrister-Leutenant")



General

Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Date:
Permalink   

It could be from a 13cm K09, but I am not too sure. It has, contrary to the 15cm sFH13 and the 21cm Mörser, the right shape, but not all the holes are in the same position. Also the number of holes is slightly different...

Attachments
__________________

Tempus Omnia Revelat



Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 3872
Date:
Permalink   

I think I might have worked this out. In the illustration of the FH13, look at the top left picture. The perforated plate is halfway along the trail in the Marschlager - travelling position. In the other 3 shots it's attached to the Klappsporn - folding trail spade. I would therefore suggest that it was used when the gun was in position to exert leverage on the spade to dig it into the earth, but, when travelling, removed and fastened to the trail with a bolt (Riegel) so as not to obstruct the towing-eye. It would make sense to perforate it for lightness but strengthen it with the Träger - struts.

The best translation seems to be "trail-plate". The same sort of thing can be seen on several different guns, so we could probably tell which type this is from if we had the dimensions.

__________________

"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.



Field Marshal

Status: Offline
Posts: 456
Date:
Permalink   

Yes, you are right! We are certainly close to a solution to this small mystery now. It is from the sFH13 or the K09. I will try and contact M. Clesse to see if he can supply us with the dimensions of this "Schwanzblech".

-- Edited by Peter Kempf at 17:45, 2007-06-17

__________________
/Peter Kempf


General

Status: Offline
Posts: 304
Date:
Permalink   

The upper detachable spade for the 15cm. s.F.H. 1913 has two rails that extend out from the spade. They fit into a mount on the rear of the howitzers trail. I am missing this part for my s.F.H. 13.
This upper spade in the photograph does not have these two rails for mounting on the howitzer. I think the guess that it is for the 13 cm. maybe correct.

__________________
Ralph Lovett
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard