After seeing footage of the De Bange 120mm firing I somehow fell in love with this gun and decided to build the FSF kit. Apart from France what countries used it? So far I know of Romania and Finnland although I haven't been able to find any pictures of Finnish ones so far. I'd really appreciate any information and especially photographs. best regards fabe
How did Finland aquire them? Did they actually purchase them after they attained independance? If not, they probably inherited them from Tsarist Russia.
yes i've seen that some links are broken,but there is allready many usefull information.
The only technical dates i have are from the book of Hans Linnenkohl : Vom Einzelschuß
zur Feuerwalze. ( From singleshot to firewalz ?? -correct english ?? ) .
I am heavy involved actually at the theme of hydaulic-air pressure-recoilsystems cause
i am building a livelike canonmodel with a modified system Baquet .Able by special Finish to fire with black-powder in salut mode . Finish it in some HOURS!!
Post it here in the evening -and also this day on eGun to sell it. Not a joke -but this
words shall also explain my abstinence here on board for the last weeks to Roger Todd,
James H.Reeve ( Eduardo is allready informed personnally ) .
I know i have promised so much here exept of " self written articles " -and a special monster gun ........ i ' do them really !!
Best regards to you all good comrades
Gerd
__________________
Steel can be helpful - you have only to bring it into the "right form "
France exported the "Matériel de 120 mle. 1878 de Bange" to the following countries: Serbia (pre-1914), Belgium (after 1915?), Italy (1916 appr. to 1918), Russia (during the war, but when is unclear),Poland (post war, some ex-Russian as well), Romania (late war to post war).
In amendment I would add that Finland used some of these guns as well; they seem to have been from Russian sources. If I find any others I will duly add them.
Serbia received Matériel de 120 mle. 1878 de Bange only after the 1916th at the Salonika front. Serbia in 1897. ordered in company Schneider 22 howitzer 12 cm M97, 16 long guns 12cm M97 and 6 mortar 15 cm M97. All these guns, howitzer and mortars were Schneider model not De Bange. All were delivered in 1902. A few years later, one of the long gun was destroyed during a school shooting. Thus Serbia in 1912th year had only 15 long guns.
-- Edited by nebojsa djokic on Thursday 22nd of March 2012 04:38:50 PM
France exported some 120L and 155L de Bange during the war:
In spring 1916: -24 to Switzerland -60 to Italia. -4 to Rumania. -60 to Russia. The same year: 12/155L de Bange were exported to Holland. I search for the fall of 1916, 1917 and 1918 years, especially for Serbia, Italia and other countries.
For Arie, I think the number of 120C in german Army is not 120 in 1916 because it is nearly the TOTAL number of 120C in french Army in 1914 and more that 100/120C were still in service in french Army in 1916, only a small number of 120C was captured in Verdun in februar 1916 (less 12 guns) and I think that none was used by german Army.But 40 120L and 28 155L de Bange guns were used in german Army, mostly captured in 1914 during the fall of Maubeuge Fortress. Yours sincerely, Guy François.
On the Salonika front Serbian divisional artillery was from the beginning owned by the Serbia, but most part artillery of army level until the end of the war left the French property. Also and artillery of a high command, although the crew and commanding was Serbian. Only after the war most of the artillery was turned over to the Serbs except for 155 mm GPF who returned to France. And mortars Stocks returned to France.
Most of the heavy artillery was outdated except Howitzers Schneider 155 mm M 15 and M 17 and Schneider Howitzer 120 mm M 15 and was quickly replaced with more modern Austria-Hungary seized heavy artillery after 1919th. French heavy weapons have been transferred to reserves except Schneider howitzers. VTZ in Kragujevac is 155 mm howitzers M 15 brought to the level of M-17 howitzer around 1927th year.
Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm just quoting 'Das Ehrenbuch der Schweren Artillery'...
But you raise an interesting point. The number of captured guns claimed by the Germans and the number of guns the opposing side, in this case the French, actually owned. I have checked the numbers for this gun in 'Les Canons De La Victoire 1914-1918 Tome 1' (page 22), and from this one can conclude that it is highly unlikely that the Germans used 120 of these... Maybe the number you give, 12, is closer to the mark...
For Arie: I have the two volumes of the book "Das Ehrenbuch der Deutschen schweren Artillerie" and also the book of Schirmer which all are GREAT books with accurate numbers but I think the number of 120C is wrong (the others numbers of 120L, 155L are true). In 1914 and 1915, none of these French 120C guns were captured and in 1916, they were 147/120C modèle 1890 and 30/120C Schneider howitzers in French Army (these 120C Schneider were new, just built from an pre-war Bulgarian order and requisitionned, used by French Army for the first time during Somme attack of 1th july 1916).In 1918, they were till 104/120 C modèle 1890 (mostly in reserve or to the "Armée d'Orient") and 12 others 120C modèle 1890 had been given to Belgian Army, they were 30/120C Schneider to Serbian Army in april 1918 and about 24 in French Army.
For Nebojsa Djokic: I have a French document of april 1918 in which the Serbian Army have these French guns: -88/65 mm (canons de montagne modèle 1906). -125/75 mm (canons de 75 mm modèle 1897 and modèle 1912). -30/120C Schneider howitzers. Are these numbers true?
Yours sincerely, Guy François.
-- Edited by ALVF on Sunday 25th of March 2012 08:17:45 AM
The figures vary from month to month, but it is it if we are talking about modern weaponry. I have not found a document or photo for the 75 mm M 1897 in Serbian service but it is not impossible that a some battery was temporary in service. Serbian army was favored 75 mm M 1912, which was much lighter it was important for the mountainous terrain on the Salonika front. In April 1918th in arming and owned by the Serbian army were and howitzer 120C Baquet minimum 20.
Sorry for my English
-- Edited by nebojsa djokic on Sunday 25th of March 2012 02:49:44 PM
My sources are the Official Archivs of "Ministère de la Guerre" and "Ministère de l'Armement" of "Service Historique de la Défense" in Vincennes. Yours sincerely, Guy François.
Do they refer to export licences or deliveries? Holland tried to obtain medium artillery in France, but they were offered only outdated weapons through middlemen...
hey fabe, one user of the De Bange 120 it was also and the Hellenic (greek) army.
36 De Bange 120 1878 was agreed to send to greece in 1917 together with 40 British 6inch (152mm) 30 cwt Howitzer in order to equip the greek army for the macedonian front.
its possible that in the end was delivered only 32 De Bange guns, these were also served in the greek-turkish war 1919-1922 and also in the greek-italian war in 1940. in 1940 were about 10 guns from which were used only one battery (4-6) guns. also many thousand shells of 120mm were converted to anti-tank mines with new fuces and was used in Epirus front in the Elaia-kalama position were was mined all possible tank roads to block the italian invasion and were efective.
Greece was one of the export users, some 36-40 De Bange 120L were transferred from france in 1917 and used in the macedonian front.
they also used in the greek-turkish war of 1919-1923 with a force of about 28 guns.
one spesific feture in this war of the wholle greek heavy artillery was that it was not used concetrated by the 3 army corps as general reserve ( A, B, C ) but rather was submitted to the divisions to increase their firepower of the 65 and 75 field and mountain guns, which was a mistake as the army corps did not have the means to concetrate firepower in the places most needed, and the heavy guns were all old with small range (De Bange 120L, vickers-armstrong 6'' short barell)
11 De Bange was saved after the disastrus outcome and 6 of them used even with the WWII as was available ammunitions for them.
also a large number of 120mm shells was used with special fuse for A/T land mines in the VIII division during the italian invasion in greece in october 1940.
there its one in the athens military museum
here its a link with greek De Bange guns and photos from the greek-turkish war
