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Post Info TOPIC: M1895 Potato Digger


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M1895 Potato Digger
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 Hello,
I need some asistance with the Colt-Browning M1895 "Potato Digger" machinegun. I know this weapon was mainly used in the Spainish-American War but it did have a role in the Great War. Can you give me some history on this weapon? Thanks!

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Sergeant

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CBM1895-car.jpg

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CBM1895-JMB.jpg

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Legend

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Hi Trenchfoot, the guy sitting on the gun is John moses browning the inventor of the "potato digger" a nickname for the "Colt model 1895" also known as the "Colt-Browning 1895/1914" and the "Marlin gun" also "marlin-rockwell".....
if you put in a search for "colt" on the forum you will most likely turn something up, including various pictures of armoured cars and trucks equipt with this weapon during the pershing mexican expedition......

http://www.spanamwar.com/Coltmachinegun.htm 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1895_Colt-Browning_machine_gun

http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/mgun_coltbrowning.htm

http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/CBM1895.html 

I dont think theres a diffinitive history of the weapon but these should help

have fun

Cheers

-- Edited by Ironsides at 00:13, 2008-03-16

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Legend

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The USA used the 1895 very little in France. It was largely confined to aircraft and known as the Marlin. The Browning M1917 soon replaced the few Colts and the Benet-Mercié (Short Hotchkiss).

Canada bought some Colts and used them in the Boer War. They were still in service in 1914 and it is claimed that some were taken to France and used until replaced by the Vickers. Pic shows Colts on Canadian Autocar, plus some interesting men in possibly dark blue. Some are also said to have found their way into British hands and been used no later than 1915.

The 1895/1914 was a modified version using 7.62mm rounds instead of 0.30. It had some other minor improvements but was virtually indentical in appearance. Italy bought a large number, and a few also cropped up in the re-equipped Belgian Army (pic).

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Captain

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They were used by the Russians in large quantities, probably during the Civil War, too. Here's a diagram of the action, which shows where the Colt got it's nickname:


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Legend

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A bit more from various sources.

The 1895/14 model was a significant improvement over the 1895 model in that the barrel was a quick change type that permitted changing of hot barrels which extended barrel life. Overheating itself was reduced with the use of a distinctive  finned barrel. Reliability also improved, although not so much to make it the equal of newer, heavier Hotchkiss and Maxim designs.

WWI: in use by Belgium, Canada, France, Italy, Russia, Spain, USA, United Kingdom. The M1895/1914 was initially adopted by the American Expeditionary Force (AEF) at the start of WWI pending delivery of other weapons (amongst others Browning M1917).
 

Finnish Civil war (1918): Used by both sides throughout the conflict. The Finnish White Army captured about 100x Russian M/1895-14 machineguns from the Red side, where they became known as M/1895.

That's the best I can do for the moment. No indication of numbers purchased or in service. Pic below is captioned English Machine Gun, but they are said to be Canadian.

BTW, anyone any idea who the men in dark uniforms are in the pic of the Autocar?



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Legend

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Hi All, does anyone have a picture of the italians using this gun....

Cheers

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Sergeant

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Thanks you all for your input. This will really help me. I will try to locate some of those pictures you requested. But I'm not making any promises.

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Legend

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L&F Funcken show a drawing of a Colt in Italian service, and many of their illustrations are based on original photos, but I haven't been able to find the original yet.

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Field Marshal

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Perhaps the figures in dark uniforms by the Autocar are Royal Marines. (Illustration by Julian Allen.)

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Legend

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Rhomboid wrote:

Perhaps the figures in dark uniforms by the Autocar are Royal Marines. (Illustration by Julian Allen.)



That had crossed my mind. The Royal Marine Brigade was formed at once, and was moved to Ostende on 27th August 1914, although it returned 4 days later. On 20th September it arrived at Dunkirk with orders to assist in the defence of Antwerp. The two other Brigades moved to Dunkirk for the same purpose on 5th October 1914. In the haste to organise and move the units to Belgium, 80% went to war without even basic equipment such as packs, mess tins or water bottles. No khaki uniform was issued. The two Naval Brigades were armed with ancient charger-loading rifles, only 3 days before embarking. The Division was orginally titled the Royal Naval Division, and was formed in England in September 1914.

The article on the Autocar confirms that they were originally armed with the Colt.

In which case, where would the Marines have come into contact with the Canadian Armoured Corps?



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Corporal

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I would like to clear up some misconceptions about the Potato digger and hopefully not add any..... there were three basic "common" types of diggers:
1. Original Colt 1895 version  unribbed barrel, first adopted by the US Navy and used by the Navy (and Marines) extensively in the Span Am War, boxer rebellion and the taking of the Phillipines.   Also two privately purchased by T.R. and used by the Rough Riders in Cuba (the ones in the movie Rough Riders, are diggers, but the later 1914 version.  These MG's were also sold privately to corporations (used against striking workers).    The US Army purchased 2 guns after the Span Am War and purchased 140 along with Maxims for general field/use testing, but neither of these guns were adopted but remained in inventory. Some of these apparently saw National Guard use, see "Ludlow Massacre" for some of the civil uses of the digger.  With the Navy having adopted the digger, other small navies did the same.  Mexico bought 150 before 1910 for their army and they were used in the Revolution, at least one falling into the hands of a revoluntary (there is a popular picture of Mexican Army diggers mounted on the top of a train).  The Colts sold just enough to remain in production.
Canadian mounted troops purhased the Colt 1895 for use in the Boer War in 1899-1902.  They were successful and the Canadians developed a liking for the type and eventually purchased the new and improved 1895/1914 model with ribbed barrel.
This MG was liked especially for naval and mounted use due to it's lighter weight than the maxims.  However the light bipod mounted Hotchkiss became popular with the British and the US and the us adopted it's first Machine Gun, the 1909 Benet Mercie Machine Rifle, these guns were the ones generally carried by US troops during the punitive expedition.
With WWI Colt jumped on the bandwagon and developed the second main version, the 1895/1914 with the ribbed barrel, initially purchased by the Canadians with tall tripods but these were cut down very quickly due to wartime conditions. The Canadians used them until
into 1915 until they were replaced with Vickers guns.   The Canadians then turned over their diggers to the Belgians....this is how the Belgians got theirs and they used them during the War in addition to whatever they could get.
The Russians got into the game, purchasing the Colt 1895/14's to supplement their 1910 Maxims.    The Italian Navy also purchased them extensively and used them on most of their naval vessels.  I saw a picture of one MAS exquipped with four diggers.  The French obtained a few and they were used at least experimentally for
early aircraft. 
As the war progressed, Colt which was making Vickers under contract sold their digger tooling to Marlin Rockwell which took up the continued Russian and Italian Navy contracts.   Marlin quickly improved the 1895/1914 into the Marlin 1917 (sliding inspection cover on side with larger entry ammo cutout and other improvements) which was still sold to the Russians and Italians but also 2500 were sold to the US Army for domestic training use.
The type continued use in the Russian Civil War and the war in Finland and probably the fighting in Poland. The Czech Legion had them when they did their epic journey out of Russia mounted behind sandbags on top of their trains.   The last documented I think combat use of the digger was oddly in the US when a National Guard unit used one rather effectively in the Battle of Blair Mountain against the striking miner "army".   
The digger, even the Marlin, tended to overheat quickly and was never a sustained fire type of weapon (Marlin in the US testing would only use the gun in 500 round contiunous firing tests while other MG's were fired for 1000 rounds continuous and this probably contributed to the lack of Marlin 1917 acceptance.
Those are the main three types of   "diggers".
The navy ordered a subtype, but the front lever was removed and a piston put in it's place...these only saw a small production and I don't think were successful at all.  Some have survived however.
However, Marlin greatly revamped the digger and with the piston made radical changes into a tank and aircraft gun that would have had major impact had the war continued to 1919.  As it was, about 1/2 of US fighter planes were equipped with
Marlin aircraft gun in the last few months of the war, replacing the Vickers.  Also the Marlin aircraft gun was used in the Tommy Morse Scouts used for training in the US. The tank version, while hardly regarded disappeared with the large scale tank production that did not materialize with the end of the war, but it probably saw service with the six ton tanks that were produced in the US near the end of the war, the copy of the FT-17.   Post war of course, the Brownings eventually pushed all the old types aside.  I did run accross a picture of the Home Guard circa 1940 with Marlin diggers in Britain, I assume sent over as part of lend lease or outright purchase. What is also interesting is that the wooden ammo boxes had camoflage paint.

-- Edited by hoodoo on Wednesday 11th of August 2010 02:57:52 AM

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Al alsumrall2001@yahoo.com


Legend

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Thanks for the research Al.

The following may be of interest but I haven't put much effort into it, mostly recalling and rechecking stuff I have at hand.

According to Terry J Gander's The Browning M2 Heavy Machine Gun (Classic Weapons Series, Paregate Books, 1999, ISBN 1 902616 28 6), in the introductory chapter, the US Marines used the M1895 in the relief of the embassies in Peking during the 1900 Boxer Rebellion. Adopted in 1896, that would be in either the 6mm Lee Navy chambering or the .30-40 Krag (recommended 1898), tripod mounted for land use. I don't know which. In the 6mm Lee chambering it was known as the Mark 1 and in both the .30-40 and the subsequent .30-06 it was known as the Mark 1 Modification 1 (confusing) according to WHB Smith in Small Arms of the World (10th edition, revised, The Stackpole Company, 1973 ISBN 0 89104 021 8). I suppose it could have been worse, at least I don't see that it was chambered for the .30-03 ("03 Springfield") in between times.

The US Marines served in some numbers in the Philippines too (1901-1902), so that would be another possible site of action for the weapon but I see no confirmation of that offhand.

Terry Gander's book states the US Army accepted 2,816 in 1917-18 with the corrugated barrel (in .30-06 chambering) - I guess those were the ones you note were for domestic training purposes. But I'm not confident we know all there is to know about possible USN (and Marine Corps) use in WW1. They had at least some history with M1895, and combat experience, at a time when the army still clung to its old Gatlings. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the USN even hung on to their 6mm rifles (in reserve) for many years after supposed obsolescence. They evidently did not enjoy nor allow themselves to suffer riding on the erratic coat-tails of the ill-prepared army.

...Steve

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Wednesday 11th of August 2010 06:34:39 AM

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Facimus et Frangimus


Commander in Chief

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amongst many details on this dramatic painting a Canadian Colt.

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Commander in Chief

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sorry, forgot to attach, here it is

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Legend

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Great painting Kieffer - complete with Ross rifles, by the look, and might that be a few Lee-Enfields as well? I fear the hero with the head bandage is not long for this world.

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Commander in Chief

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a small addition to Al's thorough analysis:
the nick name Potato Digger has it's origin in the mechanism under the barrel, the lever. The lever prevented the gun installed too low on the ground, with the cooling deficiencies the second flaw.

Kieffer

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Commander in Chief

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Hi Steve,

it's a shame, I don't know the name of the painter. The position of the Colt could cause the problem I mentioned before...

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Legend

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Hi heres the patent

Cheerssmile

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 



Legend

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Thanks Ivor. Interesting to see the feed-wheel (like an incomplete revolver cylinder) - no wonder the cyclic rate was low but the likelihood of jamming must have been reduced. Reminds me a little of the Dardik "revolver" feed mechanism except that fed from a magazine, fired from the cylinder and used trounds instead of rounds and ... well, quite different really, just reminds me a little bit.

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Field Marshal

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The painting is by Richard Jack and is entitled "The Second Battle of Ypres, 22 April to 25 May 1915". It is part of the Canadian War Museum collection.

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Commander in Chief

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Rectalgia wrote:

Interesting to see the feed-wheel (like an incomplete revolver cylinder)

I think that's a typical Colt thing, working out the revolving mechanism as was done on a rifle and implied here more or a less too.

 

- no wonder the cyclic rate was low but the likelihood of jamming must have been reduced.

Apart from the cooling problem it must have been a reliable weapon according the records. Somehow it was pretended that the lever mechanism acted as a kind of cooling pump, in 'commercials' which of course wasn't true. Firing rate was low, at the other hand you could say that this gun was an ammo-saver I think. I don't know were the critical point lays, I guess that on war planes MG's the rate plays a crucial role more than in (ww1) infantry use. Sinister calculations actually.



 



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Rhomboid wrote:

The painting is by Richard Jack and is entitled "The Second Battle of Ypres, 22 April to 25 May 1915". It is part of the Canadian War Museum collection.



Thanks Rhomboid!

 



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Ironsides wrote:

Hi heres the patent

Cheerssmile



Thanks too Ivor! Was the tripod patented too? Again a lot of brass was used. I always wonder why, as it is an expensive material, though easier to mill as steel. Relatively soft as it is prone to wear, though it's 'resistant' to corrosion (naval use), and for instance the housing of the St Etienne must have been a cooling night-mare again I guess. The Colt's quadrant and turning wheel were made of brass but may be production (there weren't that many I think, the US took only 1500 with them) shifted in iron or steel?

regards, Kieffer

 



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Legend

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I think the patent above is the original design but i also found this patented from the same time which seems more refined....

also marlin Rockwell patents for the aircraft gun etc

I havent come across any mounts so far but one must assume there is a tripod and wheeled mount at least somewhere.....

Cheerssmile

-- Edited by Ironsides on Thursday 12th of August 2010 09:31:39 AM

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