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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Armoured Cars & other AFV's -> What is the "machinery handwheel" thing on the hatch of a RR Armored Car?
Post Info TOPIC: What is the "machinery handwheel" thing on the hatch of a RR Armored Car?
Lee in Texas


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What is the "machinery handwheel" thing on the hatch of a RR Armored Car?
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I'm building one from the 9/89 Fine Scale Modeler article. I'm trying to figure out what's on the turret roof that looks like a machinery or artillery handwheel in the drawings.

Thanks, Lee

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Centurion


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Without sight of the drawing its difficult to say  - the only thing on top of the turret was usually a small hatch. Some post war models had a pillar mounting for a Lewis at the rear of the turret top and a small search light on the top front of the turret. At least two had scarf rings for Lewises  on top of the turret.

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MarkV


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Lee,

Here's a detail from the FineScale plans.  Is this the item in question?

1920PatternMkI-FineScaleModelerDeta.jpg

If so then I believe it is the flag mount, as seen in the photo below.

1922ABTNatLibofIrelandBigFellaFight.jpg

What part of Texas are you in?  I live in Austin, TX and have a good bit of Rolls Royce armoured car information if you need help detailing your 1920 Pattern Mk I.

MarkV

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Lee in Texas


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Thank you MarkV. I had just theorized that it could be a hatch lock like on ships. I was about to rob a Flak gun of a handwheel. I'm glad you straightened me out LOL.

I live nearby in Leander. I would love to see other info you have on these cars. I've had the magazine since it was new but was finally inspired to build the car when I saw a Jordi Rubio model of it. I heard it's around 150 bucks! I have the main body, turret, and frame rails built for about $1.00 worth of Evergreen plastic. I'm not sure what I'll do about the wheels and tires. I'm wondering if the 1/32 issue of that same Bentley kit could provide tires.

Thanks again, Lee.



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MarkV


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Lee,

I've had this FSM magazine since '89 as well. I think the plans are fairly accurate for the body of the 1920 Pattern MK I, but if you intend to build the 1914 Pattern there are a number of differences. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there are no detailed plans of the 1914 Pattern currently available - one must work from the Rolls Royce chassis and historic photos of the armoured cars.

The Rolls Royce chassis is rather sparsely detailed in the FSM plans and is not totally accurate in the details it does show, even for the 1920 Pattern cars. Rolls Royce Silver Ghost chassis plans can be difficult to track down but I did find detailed plans of a 1912 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost "Edinburgh" chassis in a book entitled Art of the Automobile in Miniature by model-maker Gerald Wingrove (click on these links for more information). - Note that the 1912 "Edinburgh" competition chassis was further developed by 1914 into the "Alpine" competition chassis, which in turn was developed into the chassis used in the 1914 Pattern and later armoured cars.

Despite comments that have appeared in print from WWI until today, the majority of 1914 Pattern Rolls Royce armoured car chassis used in WWI were not "standard" unmodified civilian chassis. First, Rolls Royce can hardly be said to have offered "standard" chassis given the number of options available and their steadily evolving design improvements. Secondly, the chassis used in the 1914 Pattern and 1920 Pattern cars, while based on the civilian "Alpine" competition chassis, were specially reinforced and used a heavy-duty suspension. The FSM plans show some, but not all of these modifications. There are good photos of a bare 1920 Pattern armoured cars chassis here and here.

Compounding the issue further for those contemplating a 1914 Pattern car is the fact that few armoured car bodies of this pattern are 100% identical. Hinges, bolt patterns, plate shapes, and other details vary from car to car. If you intend to build a model of a 1914 Pattern car, it is recommended that you choose for your subject a particular car for which you have good photographic coverage.

MarkV

-- Edited by MarkV at 03:52, 2008-09-09

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Lee in Texas


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MarkV-
Thanks for the information. I'll get a copy of that Wingrove book. The chassis photos answer a lot of questions I had re: Bentley kit chassis vs the real thing.

Are you in Austin IPMS? I'm going to try to make it to the meeting on Tuesday evening.

Here's what I've got so far:



-- Edited by Lee in Texas at 05:49, 2008-09-09

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MarkV


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Lee,

No, I am not a member of the Austin IPMS.  My wife has a cold right now so I am taking care of my son single-handed at the moment, but perhaps later we will have a chance to meet and exchange information.  Please feel free to send me a personal message if you would like to set this up.

Here are several more photos of the same 1920 Pattern Chassis at the Musee National de l'Automobile.  I found these photos online but I cannot recall where.

1920RollsRoyceWOchassis.jpg

61-1920RollsRoyceWO2.jpg

61-1920RollsRoyceWO3.jpg

rolls-royce-type-w-o-1920.jpg

MarkV


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MarkV is correct in referring to the 1920 pattern chassis. RR production practice with both vehicles and aero engines right up to 1970 was to apply minor design improvements as soon as they were ready to whatever was still in the production line at the time. This would mean that things produced at the beginning of the production run would vary in detail from those produced at the end. (with aero engines this was a nightmare for anyone involved in provisioning airlines with spares as I was - [Packard built RR engines were built with an entirely different policy]). So I'd support the view beware of using generic plans or photos to build a specific car .

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Lee in Texas


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Mark-
 I'd love to meet up sometime. I'm usually off on weekends. I'm a plumber so I never know what time I'll be done on a weekday. Maybe we could meet at the IPMS contest in Austin on Sat the 27th.

Here's my RRAC as of tonight (Sep 14).



It's tough to see in the pic, but the top hatch is on. The model will be a curbside. I may be building the pickup bed wrong but it's not meant to be turned over, so I'm not really worried about that.

 

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Nailcreek


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I believe the thing on the top of the turret is a partial drawing for a sun compass


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Centurion


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Wouldn't a sun compass on top of a revolving turret prove somewhat difficult to use?

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