I was copying some of my Belgian WWI photos tonight, and ran across a couple of armored car images I thought Landship readers might appreciate.
The first is simply a commercial card showing an Automitrailleuse S.A.V.A., ca. 1915 (the Belgians are wearing the "Yser" pattern uniforms distributed in 1915).
The second is a snapshot dated July 1915 of an Autocanon Mors probably built at the Minerva factory in Antwerp prior to its fall in August 1914. Many of these Mors went to Russia with the "Corps des Autos-Canons-Mitrailleuses Russie", but this one, I believe, is on the Western Front, though I cannot say that definitively.
Very nice but just two things The yser kepi was already introduced in 1914. The Mors was certainly not made in Antwerp. The foto maybe shows training at the Satory camp near Paris
CDR: What documentation to you have for the Yser kepi being in use in 1914? It is my understanding that it was introduced for use in the reorganized Belgian Army for the 1915 campaign (hence, the nickname, "Yser kepi"). In my own collection of 2,000+ photos of Belgian soldiers, I count about 450 in the "Yser" uniform. Not one of those (that is dated) carries a 1914 date.
As for the Mors, you are indeed correct. The Mors was made in Paris...I had long misread the information in Tanks and other Armoured Fighting Vehicles 1900-1918 by B.T. White states that that the Mors was established in Paris in 1895 and AFTER the Minerva factory fell in 1914, supplemented the Belgian armored car production. Thank you very much for clearing that up!
The so called Yzer kepi was introduced on 3 september 1914 (Journal militaire officiel I/977) Production started already in Antwerp which was a major industrial City. I 've got some fotos of Belgian cavalry wearing the kepi in Ghent in early october. I'm quite sure that outfits like armoured car crews would be among the first to get new equipment.
Carl, That is WONDERFUL information!! I sorted through my photos this morning, and the earliest I could find of a soldier wearing an Yser kepi with a clear date was February 1915. THank you SO much for sharing this info! You made my day.
The bonnet of a Mors is horizontal, the one of a Peugeot is oblique.
Mors had its own chassis but used valveless engines made under licence by Minerva. No other connection with the Minerva armoured cars.
Regards
Gemsco
Many people - many meaning ...
Gemsco mean, Mors have british Valveless engine, made on licenz of Minerva.
I think.. Why is name Mors, when built by Minerva? Maybe first built b Minerva in Belgium, later repair and modificed by Mors in Paris? Mors is french manufacturer! Armoured-car Mors & Peugeot are built on old project of Minerva from 1914.
Carl; thank you also. I have a picture of some men of the Legion of Frontiersmen with a Belgian armoured car crew, some of whom appear to be wearing the Yser kepi in, probably, October 1914. It didn't seem to make sense, but now it does.
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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
James: Would it be possible for you to post a scan of your armored car with crew? Sounds like a great image! And, I would love to see Belgians wearing the Yser uniform as early as October...that can be a stepping off point for more research.
Carl: I did some searching last night for the Journal militaire Officel, and must say, it is a GREAT resource! Thank you for turning me onto it.
John - if only I could. They are entombed within my possibly useless hard disk, and might never emerge. I'll do what I can. It's likely that I shall be charged a lot of money to be told that all the data is gone for good. I can assure you that I am even unhappier about this state of affairs than you are.
J
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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Oh James, I am so sorry! I experienced an external hard drive failure this past summer....60,000 images on the drive (about 45,000 were backed up elsewhere). I paid to recover the data...paid to the tune of US$1,200! Ouch. I bought several more externals after that. At $150 or so a piece, I can do a lot of back ups for the price of a single data recovery!
I received some Belgian photos today from one of my European pickers and in the group was a period large print from the negative used to produce the commercial card that I pictured earlier. Looking at it under magnification, I could make out the rather large "SAVA" logo above the grille. I tried to capture it in a photo, but without too much success.
This is a pretty neat feature I thought modelers might consider incorporating if constructing a representation. Does anyone have a better, straight-on view of the SAVA logo on this style of vehicle?
The chassis of the Mors armoured cars, of the Corps expéditionnaire des Autos-Canons-Mitrailleuses set up by Major Collon, were built at Mors factory and transformed as armoured cars by Carrosserie Kellner. Their valveless engine was indeed supplied by Minerva Motors who built them under licence from Knight. Late 1914, early 1915, when Mors built the chassis, they had still a small stock of Minerva engines dating from before the war. These engines were of the LL and MM types, as for the Minerva armoured cars themselves.
The SAVA armoured cars were built late August/early September 1914 by the SAVA company at Antwerp. This post card pictures was photographed in 1915 for propaganda purposes. There must be 5 or 6 different views of the same car. I have over 20 different types of post cards of it. It was printed by millions and flodded the world to remind the heroic Belgian stand on the Yser river.
Note that SAVA is an acronym ( like FIAT) for "Société Anversoise de Véhicules Automobiles". The French name was soon transformed in Dutch language as "Slechtes Automobile Voertuigen van Antwerpen" ( worst automotive vehicles from Antwerp). Not more than two chassis were equipped in such a way and the turret was soon discarded from the vehicle.
I always heard that the "slechtste auto van Antwerpen" name was started by people in the Minerva factory. Apparently both factories were situated close to each other
Hello , urgent message to all fans of 1stWW belgian autocanons, a friend of mine has a project to reconstruct a model like the ones that went to Russia, please visit his website : http://www.auto-canon-2014.com , some pieces have already been found, but the chassis and engine (dated 1914) are still missing, All infos are welcome, Thanks forward to contact him directly at : auto-canon-2014@hotmail.be .
Hope positive replies, regards
