Landships II

James H · Legend

Early Tracklayers (other than Holt and Bullock)

Ivan · Field Marshal

From Russia:

Allis-Chalmers, Lombard, Clayton, Ruston

James H · Legend

Those are very interesting, Ivan. Some of the pics of the Holt �look as if they are from the Russian Civil War. And I think I can see a Stahlhelm in one of them (picture 7). Holts captured from A-H perhaps, or handed over after the War?

Ivan · Field Marshal

James H wrote:

Those are very interesting, Ivan. Some of the pics of the Holt �look as if they are from the Russian Civil War. And I think I can see a Stahlhelm in one of them (picture 7). Holts captured from A-H perhaps, or handed over after the War?

First Holt-Caterpillar comming to Russia 1913 - have 1st Price in IV International automobile exhibition St. Petersburg 1913. In 1WW was in Russia many tractors!
1 october 1916 was in Russian Imperial Army all tractors:

Morton 4x4 (wheel) -�214
International Harvester "Mogul" (wheel) - 19
International Harvester�"Titan" (wheel) - 11
Marshall (wheel, steam) - 11
Holt-Caterpillar (trac) - 3
Daimler (wheel) - 5
Fowler and Vickers-Fowler (trac, wheel, all steam) - 122
Leyland (wheel) - 1
Rumeley Oll Pulls (wheel) - 7
Case (wheel) - 8
Parson (trac�with excavator) - 6
Allis-Chalmers (trac) - 3
Kolomna (KMZ - russian, wheel, steam) - 6
Hart-Parr (wheel) - 3

Later come also many next�tractors: Lombard, Ruston, Clayton, Allis-Chalmers, Holt-Caterpillar and others from UK and USA.

On the pictures open are NO ONE Holt-Caterpillar, this are Ruston-Holt (licenz from Holt)!!! This tractors comming many 1917-1919. Here also Rustons 1917-1919.

�

-- Edited by Ivan on Friday 31st of July 2009 09:19:36 PM

Ivan · Field Marshal

James H wrote:

Those are very interesting, Ivan. Some of the pics of the Holt �look as if they are from the Russian Civil War. And I think I can see a Stahlhelm in one of them (picture 7). Holts captured from A-H perhaps, or handed over after the War?

The soldier in german Stahlhelm is a Red army soldier - South Russia, 1919. Tractor is Clayton, captured from White army.

�

-- Edited by Ivan on Saturday 1st of August 2009 01:33:14 PM

Tim R · Hero

Ivan

� Hello, great photo's, do you by chance have any more Clayton photo's or any schematics (Drawings) of the Clayton.

I am also looking for information on the Armored Cars built on both the Clayton and Lombard, Allis-Chalmers. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

All the Best
Tim R.

James H · Legend

Hi, Ivan. Thank you very much for the information. Fascinating.

Further research reveals that the magazine�with the very straightforward name Old Tractors has an article in the June 2009 issue entitled RUSTON-HOLT: The tractor from Lincolnshire that mechanised the armies of Russia. It seems to have been a Holt in all respects but with a Ruston-Hornsby Engine. And in 2005 a survivor was found in Australia.

I was also surprised to read elsewhere that "442 Holt 75s were built at the Lincoln, England, plant of Ruston & Hornsby". I had always been under the impression that all 75s were imported from the USA.

There is always more to learn.

Hello Tim, by the way. Where have you been?�

Ivan · Field Marshal

Tim,

I have no schema from Clayton - the photos only (all from Civil war in Russia and from Clayton catalogue).
Armoured Clayton:
1) from Rewelski work (Noworossijsk).
2. from Neff-Wilde work (Noworossijsk) with great canon.
All 1919.

Ivan · Field Marshal

Russian armoured tractors:

1) Allis-Chalmers-Poutiloff "Achtyrez". 1916 (new names: 1917 "Ilia Muromez"; 1918: "Krasny Peterburg")
2) Lombard-Sudostal "General Ulagay". 1919�
3) Lombard-Sudostal "Doblestny Labinez". 1920 (Georgian army?)