Landships II

kkfj1 · Major

Something new about Armstrong-Whitworth armored car(s) captured by Japanese

kkfj1 · Major

The Japanese words on the second photo reads: "Captured in Siberia".

Ivan · Field Marshal

I say mamy-many!!!!!

This is NO Armstrong-Whitworth!!!

This armoured car (only three built, two with sponsons and one with turrel) built in Vladivostok (Russia) in 1919. by the work "Dalzavod" on a chassis of "American-Fiat".
All cars was in service of White-russian army, later all three was captured from Red-russian army!!!

Japanese have it NO captured! One car stand with engine-deffect in Vladivostok many time,�many people (russians, japanesens, americans) maked photo with this car in Vladivostok!

I have more as 20 photos of all this THREE cars!

Ivan · Field Marshal

Ivan · Field Marshal

If somebody mean, it is Armstrong-Whithworth,this NO CORRECT! This is old fool-legend from one old english book for the children.

This is "Dalzavod-Fiat", built in Vladivostok, Russia! 100%!!!

john_g_leinster · Corporal

A splendid collection of photographs, Ivan, many thanks.

John.

James H · Legend

Calm down, Ivan.

This is the illustration of the Armstrong-Whitworth from B.T. White's Tanks and other Fighting Vehicles 1900-1918. According to the book, the first example was built in 1913 for the Russian govt. Later, many more were supplied, "but not on an Armstrong-Whitworth chassis." Is this wrong?

BTW, I was a bit puzzled as to why the Japanese would be capturing Russian armoured cars, since they were supposedly allies, but now I've read about the Siberian intervention, of which I was previously unaware.

A side issue: Here are some illustrations of the conflict. On another (inferior) Forum it is claimed that Austrian troops are mistakenly included in some of the pictures. However, the suggestion is made that they are Czech troops, who were in Vladivostok by that time. http://netmole.blogspot.com/2008/10/siberian-intervention-19181922-was.html

Ivan · Field Marshal

James H wrote:

Calm down, Ivan.

This is the illustration of the Armstrong-Whitworth from B.T. White's Tanks and other Fighting Vehicles 1900-1918. According to the book, the first example was built in 1913 for the Russian govt. Later, many more were supplied, "but not on an Armstrong-Whitworth chassis." Is this wrong?

BTW, I was a bit puzzled as to why the Japanese would be capturing Russian armoured cars, since they were supposedly allies, but now I've read about the Siberian intervention, of which I was previously unaware.

A side issue: Here are some illustrations of the conflict. On another (inferior) Forum it is claimed that Austrian troops are mistakenly included in some of the pictures. However, the suggestion is made that they are Czech troops, who were in Vladivostok by that time. http://netmole.blogspot.com/2008/10/siberian-intervention-19181922-was.html

James,

yes, this is a picture from the B.T. White's book, were first was wroten: Armstrong-Whitworth. Why? I don't know... In this book wroten many no correct informationes!

All invasions trooops wont this AC captured confuse

- Czechoslovalks, Japaneses, Americans...
The car stand dead�2 years in Vladivostok-City - come japanese soldiers, make photo and wrote:�We have�captured armoured car!�Next day the same make the Czechs, next day Americans....

Fact is: as Red Army�to Vladivostok comming - all THREE (on a photo stand all three toghetel) Dalzavod-Fiat armoured cars was captured by Reds russians - all three come in red hands, all three was with technical deffects - no possible to fighting!

�

-- Edited by Ivan on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 01:05:07 PM

kkfj1 · Major

Oh......These Japanese......
They even said they built this armored car themselves, my god!!
Japanese captions are sometimes very very incorrect. For example, under a photo of a Japanese armored train took during the Second Sino-Japanese War, they wrote: "Captured Chinese armored train"!!!!!

kkfj1 · Major

However, Japanese army DID built armored cars by themselves during Siberia Invasion.
http://www.horae.dti.ne.jp/~fuwe1a/newpage42.html (see the last 2 pics)

kkfj1 · Major

The caption says:
(the fist one:)
Japanese army used this armored car in "Siberian Intervention"(1918-1922). It was built on a 3-ton truck chassis. Japanese called it a "light armored car". It had a round rotating turret and it was armed with a HMG. Two were buit and one of them took part in the fight.

kkfj1 · Major

(the second one:)
This is another kind of armored car used by the "Armored Car Squad" during the "Siberian Intervention". It was called a "Heavy Armored Car" in Japan. Two took part in the fight. They were built on two different 4-ton truck chassis(called a "Type C truck" and a "Type B truck" in Japan, don't know what kind of trucks are they). They had 4mm thick armor.

Some imaginative people said the first armored car is Japanese-captured Ehrhardt. However, they will soon discover the truth when they see the second photo......

Ivan · Field Marshal

kkfj1 wrote:

However, Japanese army DID built armored cars by themselves during Siberia Invasion.
http://www.horae.dti.ne.jp/~fuwe1a/newpage42.html (see the last 2 pics)

Yes! The last two pictures are armoured cars "made in Japan".

�

Michel Boer · Brigadier

Interesting! I've got a model of one of these cars from Fairey Planning in Japan (almost impossible to get hold of unfortunately...). They state on the label that it's built in 1919 at the Osaka Artillery Arsenal of mild steel, indeed used in Siberia by the Japanese for testing and training.

Michel.

kkfj1 · Major

Wow! Thank you for your further information.
Can you�post some photos of�your model on the forum? I'm thinking of scartch-build one!

BTW, why didn't Chinese soldiers took a photo with the "Dalzavod-Fiat"? biggrin

Ivan · Field Marshal

kkfj1 wrote:

, why didn't Chinese soldiers took a photo with the "Dalzavod-Fiat"?

Chinese soldiers�don't go�in Vladivostok biggrin

�

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

Michael: with this foto it is going to be interesting.

Michel Boer · Brigadier

kkfj1 wrote:

Wow! Thank you for your further information.
Can you�post some photos of�your model on the forum? I'm thinking of scartch-build one!

Will do when it's finished.

Michel.

�

kkfj1 · Major

Ivan wrote:

Chinese soldiers�don't go�in Vladivostok

�They did! Here is a very interesting photo:
http://60.250.180.26/chin/1607-10.html
It shows Chinese cruiser "Hai Rong"(on the left) in Vladivostok, the ship on the right is a Japanese battleship.
It says more than 3000 Chinese soldiers went to Vladivostok during Siberia Intervention.

kkfj1 · Major

Michel Boer wrote:

Interesting! I've got a model of one of these cars from Fairey Planning in Japan (almost impossible to get hold of unfortunately...). They state on the label that it's built in 1919 at the Osaka Artillery Arsenal of mild steel, indeed used in Siberia by the Japanese for testing and training.

Michel.

�Can you show me the plan of the model?
I know every Fairey Planning model has a good set of plan.

James H · Legend

Friend kkfj1,

This is a bit of a digression, but I deduce that you are proficient in Oriental languages. This photograph caused some difficulty a little while ago. Can you read what is written on the packing crate?

Gregorus · Corporal

Perhaps this is destroyed in Grodno fortress Japanese howitzer cal. 20 cm. L16 model 1912 - that true?

-- Edited by Gregorus on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 03:42:38 PM

Michel Boer · Brigadier

kkfj1 wrote:

�Can you show me the plan of the model?
I know every Fairey Planning model has a good set of plan.

Here it is.

Michel.

�

kkfj1 · Major

James H wrote:

Friend kkfj1,

This is a bit of a digression, but I deduce that you are proficient in Oriental languages. This photograph caused some difficulty a little while ago. Can you read what is written on the packing crate?

�It reads:"The box which contains the tools of 28cm howitzer use in fortress".
It's obvious that this gun�is a Japanese 28cm howitzer "model 1887"(maybe we can call it "model 1887", because it went into service in 1887. It was just called "28cm Howiter" in Japan).
Perhaps this photo was taken during Russo-Japanese War.

kkfj1 · Major

Thank you for your plan Michel! Looking forward to your finished model! smile

James H · Legend

Thanks, kkfj1. You are now Head of Oriental Languages Dept. This post carries no salary.

JH