Landships II

Rob · Legend

Gallipoli Gun

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Fascinating find, Rob, thanks for posting. I doubt there is much chance of finding out more about this gun and how the Turks came to be in possession of it, but it would be nice to know.

Both Turks and Nordenfeldt gun (actually, it is a Gardner gun in the HaT set, but conversion to a Nordenfeldt is simple)�are available in 1/72 from HaT.

Rob · Legend

It would be interesting to know how they got it - although I know people in the right places with regards to the RF Museum, I don't think interrogation of Turkish Prisoners would have stretched to asking where they acquired relatively ancient weapons from

Ironsides · Legend

Hi Rob Interesting, its probarbly an old�ship gun any idea on the calibre? the reason why i ask is there is a 4 barrelled "larger calibre" gun partially shown in this patent...page 3/45

Cheers smile

Brennan · Lieutenant-Colonel

It is highly probable that they bought it. In the 1870's & 1880's the Turks bought ships & armmaments - especially from Armstrong & co. Several of the Turkish Ironclads of the late 1870's are recorded as having substantial calibre Nordenfelt guns for anti torpedo boat defence. What interests me more is that it is 4 barrelled, 5 was more common on naval mounts!

Rob · Legend

No idea on the calibre i'm afraid, next time i'm down there i'll try and measure it though!

Brennan · Lieutenant-Colonel

I know of 1 inch, 0.5 inch mounts for the navy & have seen a reference to a 0.7 (?) inch mount. Landing & anti personnel mounts were in 0.455 inch mostly, though some may have been in 0.577 inch?

Rectalgia · Legend

There is mention of this gun at this Axis History Forum with sevral more pictures. It is suggested it is a 1" type.� Using the kid as a gauge, knowing the human eye is about 24mm and doesn't change much with age, that seems a reasonable assertion.

Brennan · Lieutenant-Colonel

If the gun is a 1" Nordenfelt, then it is very likely to be a 1870's (late) or 1880' (early) anti torpedo boat (really Torpedo Launch).�

The Ottoman's purchased two Central Battery Ironclads from Britain. The first was completed & delivered - named Messudieh (I use the�spelling from Conways). The second was siezed by Britain (despite being lauched & capable of sailing & currently under the�Ottoman Flag - a clear breach of�international conventions) at the start of the Russo-Turkish war (1877 -79). This vessel became the Superb, once modified for the RN after siezure!

The Messudieh�had at least 6 anti-torpedo craft machine guns fitted! The standard weapons for this role in the British systems & manufacture were 1" Nordenfelts.

Ironsides · Legend

I think its the 1" or something close to it, there's a rather nice site with complete animations on this gun here....

http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Nordenfelt/nordenfelt1inch4.html#

Cheers smile

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

That is a very plausible explanation, Brennan. Thank you. Most interesting.

CharlieC · Legend

The 4 barrel Nordenfelt was fairly common in coastal defence works in the 1890s. In Queensland there are 3 surviving Nordenfelt 4 barrel guns (and a 2 barrel). Some of these are documented on www.ammsbrisbane.com/documentation.htm. The usual calibre of these was 1" (25mm). The Nordenfelts at Maryborough and Bundaberg look pretty similar to the one is this thread except that the charging lever and the mechanical parts under the barrels are missing on the London gun. There was also another Nordenfelt gun which was fairly common - an anti-torpedo boat gun of 1.5" calibre - this was a single shot gun.

Regards,

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 15th of February 2010 11:18:58 PM

-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 15th of February 2010 11:21:30 PM

Rob · Legend

I was at the Tower again yesterday - there's a plate on the back which says 'Nordenfelt No 2681' - any help?

Hughbearson · General

Nordfeldts were also put on the back of small ships in the late 1800s, so it could be from the Imperial Ottoman Navy.

Brennan · Lieutenant-Colonel

That is exactly where I believe it came from (the Ottoman Navy) though I suspect one of the older major vessels as by that stage most of the smaller vessls were not comming from British sources.

Lafettenheini · Colonel

Here is a Nordenfelt picture i made in the military historical museum of Koblenz .

Will try to dig out more stuff about there at my next visit .

Only for first : All have calibres in 1" or better 25,4 mm ... They where also build

in licence by several states but most of them build in London and sold for service as

anti torpedo boad cannons . Firing rate was max.120 shots p.round . Free fall box magazin . Firing range max.effective to 1700 yards .

And here one i found made at the military museum of Istanbul ..

-- Edited by Lafettenheini on Monday 5th of April 2010 11:46:57 PM

r16 · Private

the only mention of automatic weapons in Turkish service refer to 37 mm guns but no brand name , used around Sedd�lbahir