"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
I haven't seen this one before. Is it just the angle or does it appear that there is only one gun on the deck? Also, there does not appear to be any seating along the side as with the other more known example.
There are quite a few differences in this example - different gun, the sides appear to be lower, this one appears to have plating down the side of the drivers compartment and the anti-ditching? plates at both ends are gone.
Maybe this version has been stripped down to allow more protection and a bit more speed.
Is there any futher info on the origins of the photo? Does anyone have an idea of what the building in the background is?
...vehicle appears to be a Gelandewagen ( minus the driver's roof ) with an improvised Krupp 7,7cm pedestal mount forward. Likely post-war use against the Spartacus movement.
Very fortuitously, there is an account of the K-Flak vehicles in Strasheim & Hundleby's new book.
Three Überlandwagen chassis were designated as AA vehicles and converted by Krupp in Essen, one fitted with two 7.7 L/27 and the other two each with two captured Russian 7.62 AA, all on socle mounts. At least two of the converted vehicles saw action in France, but the problem again was that their fuel consumption was enormous compared to a lorry-mounted Flak.
This vehicle looks very like the 7.7 version pictured in the book. It's the stretched version, not a standard Überlandwagen, and they seem to have been completed without a roof.
What became of them is not mentioned. The pic does look as if it might be post-War. Identifying the building would be a big help.
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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
The Flak-Überlandwagen were only deployed in mid-1918. This picture shows a snowy environment, thus most probably winter 1918/19, which is sufficient to cry "Freikorps". Unfortunately, all my attempts to identify the building failed as yet.
Looks like the Stadtschloss or Reichstag buildings in Berlin
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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
The gun seems to have a recuperator on top of the barrel. The 7.7cm FK didn't have this. The gun looks something like the 8.8cm L/30 gun used on German warships in the late 19th century. These guns were pedestal mounted making attachment to the A7V chassis reasonably straightforward.
I'm only going on googled photos, but the building doesn't look like either the Reichstag or the Schloß.
There is a pic in the new A7V book of the Flakpanzer that was allocated to Battery 16, the one supposedly fitted with 7.7s. The guns clearly have a recuperator on top. Acc to Herbert Jäger, this gun is the 7.7 L/27 Sockelflak, specially developed for AA use by Krupp and Rheinmetall, and a different gun from the 7.7FK n/A, .
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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Charlie, .... I did not say the Krupp gun was an FK96 n/A. Rather a Model 1914 commonly seen on the Daimler platform truck, or K-Flak. The Rhienmetall version looks quite different. Note the steel rails used to support the driver's positon fold-up blast sheilds appear to be absent of this variant. Perhaps more than the 3 chassis existed of this vehicle.
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
The domes from Berlin's Stadtschloss and Reichstag were different. I think that it's an other building.
Michel
Hi Michel,
I asked my wife, she is from Berlin and says that this is certainly not the Reichstag nor the Stadtschloss but she does not recognise this building either. May be it's in Munich? Or somewhere in the southern part of Germany, it's a guess.
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Couldn't work out how to attach a pic to the PM so I have posted one here. It was taken at a recent show in Wollongong (south of Sydney) I have re-painted my Flakpanzer in colours which I think are closer to the money??!!
May I say it looks like the vehicle was copied into the background.
For that reason, the building might be anywhere in the world.
It definitely is neither the Reichstag, nor the Stadtschloss, nor the Dome. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dom_und_Stadtschloss,_Berlin_1900.png
I think I could do it with an MGM gelandwagen with two MGM 7.7's off their WW2 tractor kits.
Regards, Josh
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"General, you have nobly protected your forts. Keep your sword...to have crossed swords with you has been an honor, sir." General der Infantrie, Otto von Emmich
I knew the picture but was still puzzling about time, location and background as well. According to 5. Sonderband (II. Technischer Sonderband) one "Wagen " (Flak-Batterie 16) was armed with 2 Franzosenflak. This would contradict a source/photograph mentioned here but I think I remember I have seen this configuration with Franzosenflak on a picture. As well the mentioned source claimed this "Raupenflak" (I think more precise terms like "7.7-cm-Flak auf Überlandwagen" or Raupenwagen were used instead of panzer) fell into enemy hands already in December 1917. (Is this true? And what is known about the whereabouts of the other Raupenflaks?)
Two more Raupenflaks (Flak-Batterie 17 and 18) with 2 Russian 7.62-cm-O-Flak each came to the front end of August 1918. It was reported even 2 Daimler-Schlepper could not move away a Raupenflak if its Überlandwagen was suffering from mechanical failure. Strong vibrations and strong fire and smoke-development disturbed the work of the gun crews and made it easy to discover for the enemy.
Btw it is not 100% safe that the building on the background is a German building. Some of the occupied cities in Belgium and France did posses impressive palaces as well, e.g. a kind of palais de justice.
