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Post Info TOPIC: Rolls Royce Armoured Car captured by Germans in Lebanon in 1917?
MarkV


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Rolls Royce Armoured Car captured by Germans in Lebanon in 1917?
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Hello all,

It has been a while since I posted here but when I came across this I immediately thought I'd bring it to the attention of the Landships forum.  It professes to be a photo of a Rolls Royce armoured car captured by German troops in Lebanon in 1917 or 1918:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?156121-UNIFIL-MNF-FMSB-and-all-foreign-armies-found-in-The-Lebanon&p=4819471&viewfull=1

Clicking back to the previous page in the above forum reveals the rest of the photos in the collection, which show what is identified as a German truck convoy making its way through Lebanon and Syria in 1917-18.  I don't see any more RR ACs but I would think that photos of German convoys in the middle east during WWI are quite rare.

I wonder what the circumstances were that resulted in the capture of this Rolls Royce, and what became of this car?  It appears to be in decent shape in the photo.  Also, can anyone provide a translation for the hand-written caption on the photo?

MarkV

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Tim R


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That is very interesting, I look forward to seeing what others may know about this R.R.

Thanks for sharing.
All the Best
Tim R.

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Rob


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Interesting vision slots on the front visor - they're usually much lower, that's the first time i've seen them that high

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Rectalgia


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MarkV wrote:


...Also, can anyone provide a translation for the hand-written caption on the photo?...

Erbeutes Panzerautomobil which possibly renders as "Captured armoured automobile" (Google Translate says "Armor auto capture").

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Sunday 9th of May 2010 06:37:55 PM

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kieffer


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Hi Steve,

that's correct. Erbeuten is the verb, Beute, 'die Beute' as it's feminim is the noun.
Soldiers, predators, thieves, pirates, they all 'machen eine fette Beute', or are trying to do so.

regards, Kieffer


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Rectalgia


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kieffer wrote:

...
Soldiers, predators, thieves, pirates, they all 'machen eine fette Beute', or are trying to do so.

Thanks Kieffer - love it.

S

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kieffer


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Hi Steve,
You're welcome!
my king-size haiku was actually an effort to illustrate that I could not find the English equivalent for Beute. As 'capture' can refer to goods and human beings, Beute is always refering to goods. Correct me if I am wrong: one can capture soldiers?
So, "loot' may be the equivalent though that's  plunder...to stay with the military, also known as "taking souvenirs"..

best regards, Kieffer


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Rectalgia


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kieffer wrote:

...So, "loot' may be the equivalent though that's  plunder...to stay with the military, also known as "taking souvenirs"..

Ah, that puts a different complexion on it - loot (Hindi from Sanskrit) can be used in English comically or disparagingly to describe the 'spoils of war' so that caption has perhaps more than just a touch of arrogance about it, if it carries that connotation.

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CharlieC


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Another English usage - although this might be limited to Australian dialect is "trophy" as in "trophy guns" - which has the same meaning as "beute" but usually limited to larger military items such as field guns.

Regards,

Charlie


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Rectalgia


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Not in the same category as "Beutewein" then, which I have seen on these pages laughing.gif.

"Trophy" I think is a legitimate/honourable usage going back as far as warfare itself - the proud display of captured weapons, colours, pennants (and in more savage times) the spare parts of enemy combatants. One sometimes sees royal coats of arms, surrounded by the lances and pennants of their trophies. Now if die Beute is used in that context it has a totally different 'feel'.

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kieffer


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Hi Steve,

yes I think that's close to it. Beute, in Dutch 'buit, oorlogsbuit' has also that semi legal context: taken goods by force, showing them as if there's an official rule that gives you the ownership.
The Siegessaule in Berlin has the French gun barrels from the Franco-Prussian War on it.
The famous French ww1 victory parade had a huge pile of guns near the Arc de Triumphe, two exactly, one with the Gallic cockerell making up for the fight, the other with a triumphating bird.

regards, Kieffer

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kieffer


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Hi Charles,

yes, it's the volume and sometimes the quantity. Well, and 'taking souvenirs', I mentioned that expression just because like the slang or euphemistic tone that is used when people are walking a bit of the line.. 'organising' is another one.
It happens in every army I think, how disciplined they might be. Souvenir taking is quite more harmless than plundering, that often happened in combination with ramsacking villages or even doing evil things to civilians. I read somewhere that souvenir taking could be dangerous for front line troops too, when being captured, wearing enemy items could provoke revenge (boots especially, you better did not do that).
As we had that highly unpleasant discussion about the Iraqui gun,  I don't want to step on others national feelings. So I am not naming nationalities but my own family had 'souvenir takers' of at least 3 different nations on the premises..friends and foes. Some redecoration of the furniture was done too..in a quite bizar way.
It is also a paradox. Looting is a serious offence in the army, severely punished by court martial. But taking the horses, blankets, other means of transport etc. in an organised way seems to be okay, stealing a chicken by a hungry private not.

regards, Kieffer



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Rectalgia


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So, we loop back to the caption in the original post and it is another way of saying "Beutepanzer" which, unlike a traditional trophy, is put to use.

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kieffer


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Hi Steve, well said! And bringing things on topic again, chapeau!

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