Landships II

Ironsides · Legend

Big Bertha Endless Track?

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Ironsides,

I guess you'r right. I don't think a track is defined by the amount of rollers or sprockets, but it is a bit of a philosophical matter. Some armoured cars in the 20's/30's had tracks which could be installed over their normal (tandem) tyres, like Renault, I think Russian BA's had them, the Landsverk. All these vehicles didn't have sprocket wheels (and usually the track stayed on the running board as it was not very efficient).
But of course these were made for traction as the Bertha pads were only made to widen the wheel band, I think. Interesting they did it like this, may be the weight?

regards, Kieffer

Ralph Lovett · General

Ironsides,

Yes, Many large bore diameter German WW1 Era Howitzers were fitted with removable track pads to reduce their tendicy to sink into the ground.�

I have attached two technical drawings of this type of wheel-Track Pad from "Handbuch der Waffenlehre...1912".

I hope this is of interest

R/

Ralph Lovett
www.lovettartillery.com

-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Thursday 1st of July 2010 12:49:49 AM

CharlieC · Legend

There is a note on the Landships site on the Canon de 120, Mod�le 1878 about the use
of "Ceinture de Roues" which were primarily designed to stop the gun slewing when it recoiled and to return the gun to more or less the same position after firing. The improved soft ground mobility is noted as a useful secondary benefit.

Regards,

Charlie

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Great drawings, thanks for sharing your info Ralph!
Charlie, the slewing explanation, I think that makes sense. It is a genius construction anyway.
Who came up with the idea or where was it invented?
And which kind of wood was used for the pads, oak, beech?
The picture below is from 'Classic tractors of the world' by Nick Baldwin and Andrew Morland, Voyageur Press, US.
Somehow the padding idea wasn't given up I guess. This is the Renault R 7012 with Rotapede wheels. From 1951, may be it's inspired by the Boirault machine from 1915 (second picture).

kieffer · Commander in Chief

a picture of an Italian 6inch, apparantly the padding had always two 'shoes' on the ground.

Rob · Legend

The launching carriages used by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) here in the UK used track pads

28juni14 · Hero

To add a bit of trivia, these wheel pads ( "� Rad-guertel " ),� were first employed by the Germans it seems, and quickly copied by the allies.

MLW · Lieutenant-Colonel

Big Bertha's Rad-guertel were primarily meant to enhance mobility.� When emplaced for firing, the wheels were placed on a platform which in turn was laid upon crushed stone or a a lattice of wooden planks or steel rails.� When towing the howitzer into place, the Rad-guertel decreased the ground to weight ratio, reducing the likelihood that the howitzer would sink into the ground.

Cheers, Marc

Ironsides · Legend

Thanks all for your replies and drawings, all very interesting and much clearer.. I cant help thinking that the model manufacturers have got this part wrong as it should be a very loose fit so loose its almost falling off...
It must have been curious to watch on the move as the extra length of the track would be translated into movement relative to the wheel...

Cheers wink

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Rob,

were these carriages drawn by horses too? Rescue boats on the northern North Sea coast were launched by horses, pulling the carriage far enough in the water to let the boat drifting of. A spectacular but hazardous operation for men and horses.� Later they used tractors, but after ww2 they even used a Weasel, or a GMC army surplus truck too.
Another 'military' gadget was the beach mortar ('wipper') who could fire a lanyard to a stranded vessel. In combination with poles and pulls they heaved a 'broek' (pants) to the wreck. You might say the wipper was the predecessor of the TOW guided missile...
A similar method still in use on war ships to transfer people without a life boat.

regards, Kieffer

Rob · Legend

Hi Kieffer, they were usually horse drawn when using carriages, in a few cases they'd just use people instead - the first tractors used by the RNLI were the same used by the RNAS and RAF to tow the huge Handley Page bombers in WW1, and later used a half-track made by FWD which, aside from the tracks, looked extremely similar to the FWD Model B used in WW1. The last horse launch was in the 1930's

Roger Todd · Legend

Ralph Lovett wrote:
Ironsides,

Yes, Many large bore diameter German WW1 Era Howitzers were fitted with removable track pads to reduce their tendicy to sink into the ground.�

I have attached two technical drawings of this type of wheel-Track Pad from "Handbuch der Waffenlehre...1912".

I hope this is of interest

R/

Ralph Lovett
www.lovettartillery.com

-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Thursday 1st of July 2010 12:49:49 AM

Only three-and-a-half years late seeing this... But thank you very much! This is perfect for a current project.