Landships II

kieffer · Commander in Chief

8e GEA

Rectalgia · Legend

Maybe it is something to do with the 8th/10th Gordons, perhaps part of the 15th (Scottish) Division. I'm not sure of their disposition at the time. The 12th HLI, the Camerons and the Scots Fusiliers attacked German trenches to the south of Martinpuich on 12 August 1916. The 15th Division took Martinpuich on 15 September.

A better picture (on zoom) at http://www.old-print.com/mas_assets/full/E2871916131.jpg.

Hmmm ... "cats are said to show a curious indifference to shell-fire," eh? Not like dogs then.

Here's the detail:

Since you are strangely attracted to the Scotts (as is much of Europe, I think it goes back to the scandalised/excited Parisiennes of 1815 - C'est vrai! actuellement rien qu'un petit jupon - mais comment! - Queen Victoria and the invention of underpants was still in the future), here is a picture of them at their very best:

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Saturday 20th of November 2010 05:36:37 AM

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Rectalgia wrote:

Since you are strangely attracted to the Scotts (as is much of Europe, I think it goes back to the scandalised/excited Parisiennes of 1815 -

Dr. Freud is gone and his theories almost forgotten, well at least in Europe they are...

Rectalgia · Legend

Indeed, that is apparent

But does "GEA" mean/stand for anything in relation to the Scottish regiments in French/any other European language?

The date and location you stated gives a good indication the men in your photo were Scottish, the caption of the other version of photo says they were - so if there is a solution to the meaning of the mysterious tag "8e Gea" you ask about, that might be a clue.

Other clues, perhaps the main ones, could be in the original context in which your photo is found and concerning which you've told us nothing. So I think of this as something of a game - unless you also lack that context, in which case please forgive my flippancy.

Anyway, I'm stumped, apart from that one "factiod" - their nationality - and something suggestive - the identities of several of the regiments to which they may have belonged.

Pat · Commander in Chief

It has happened to many of us that we were puzzled by a place's name or an abbreviation, and after much searching it turned out the original name was mis-read. So with regards to nobody being able to make something of that abbreviation, may I respectfully suggest you post the original caption for us to decipher? Regards, Pat

kieffer · Commander in Chief

No, I am not gaming. The original caption is in Dutch/Flemish and says literally translated:
The 8e Gea in their trench at the frontline looking out at Martinpuich 25 August 1916.
Notice Gea, that's only capital G and small ea. I tried to look that up but never found any regiment etc. with that abbreviation. The source is a book about the war in Flanders, more or a less a general overview so the text does not reveal any detail about this particular subject. But, other captions like '2nd KOSB', '2nd Batallion Royal Warwickshire Regiment', further names and dates etc. give me the impression that the author is well informed so mis-reading etc. doesn't seem very likely.
Gea in relation with Dutch or other European language: I puzzled but can't think at anything.

regards, Kieffer

Rectalgia · Legend

It occurred to be some time ago that Ge₃As₄ is is germanium arsenide so I suppose Be.Ge₃As₄ could be beryllium-doped germanium arsenide, maybe, some sort of super-dooper semi-conductor which remains unremarked even in the early 21st century, let alone almost a century before when coherers using nickel filings and galena crystal detectors were the state of the art so that wasn't very helpful.

As Pat says straight (and I was beating about the bush concerning the same) full disclosure is the most productive course to attack these little puzzles. But you can see some effort has been made

Ah, apologies, you replied while I was writing - but you have clarified something. I had assumed 8e meant "8th" (eighth) but that is not the case in Flemish, is it? It is the assumptions we make that bring us undone.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Monday 22nd of November 2010 08:38:14 AM

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Please, I already gave all the info I had, in translation too.

8e, yes that is 8th in Dutch, and Flemish too.

-- Edited by kieffer on Monday 22nd of November 2010 04:06:43 PM

Rectalgia · Legend

Well they're certainly Scotsmen and I suppose the British orbat for the Somme might give up some clues: Order Of Battle For The Somme July - November 1916.� I had a quick glance at the 15th (Scottish) Division, also the 51st (Highland) Division without finding anything promising.� I bet it is a translation thing.� Yes, I looked at all the "8th"s too.� Also perforce "18th"s etc. as well but that can't be helped without some work.� The orbat includes units that were well chewed over in August and withdrawn shortly after (taking what were probably those same trenches shown in the pictures of those lads) so it seems quite complete.

Language ... ... mankind's great achievement.� Some of those troops would have seen this one:

kieffer · Commander in Chief

here they are, 'oof' buying troops. Which is French, 'un oeuf' of course, an egg.
The oofs are a bit hard to determine on the picture, but the Dutch/Flemish caption says the old lady is selling bread and oofs to the troops. If you wish I can give you the original Dutch caption gentlemen...

regards, Kieffer

-- Edited by kieffer on Friday 26th of November 2010 01:07:58 AM

Rectalgia · Legend

Ah, you've a genius for locating those appropriate scenes Kieffer. I have no idea how Jock would go about ordering a loaf of bread but I'm sure it would be excruciatingly painful.

Back to 8e Gea. How about the 1/8th Royal Scots who served under Lt Col W. Gemmill as the Pioneer Battalion of the 51st (Highland) Division from August 1915?
Pioneer, Engineer, Militair Ingenieur, G�nie Militaire - could Pioneers be nicknamed/acronymed "Gea" in Flemish? Okay Pioneers aren't the same as Combat Engineers organisationally but they have key tasks in common. And it is hard to guess what might be done in a different language at a different time. I'm fairly sure, turning it around, most Flemish-speakers would have a hard time deciphering (say) "Ally Sloper's Cavalry", as would most English-speakers - well, Wikipedia comes to the rescue these days but that is heavily-loaded with English-language material.

Oh, and there was a 9th (Scottish) Division too in that orbat, could be worth puzzling over the units comprising that too. Have you looked through it (the orbat)?

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Thanks for the compliment Steve. Same sort of picture there is from the Phoney War, Brits having their tea given by an old, and this time very friendly looking, French old lady.
As 'pain' is French for bread I only can guess the confusion for Jock.
I am still puzzling about Gea. No idea what Flemish word could be abbreviated like that.
I looked through the orbat, nothing matched. I wanted to write the author but apparantly he is no longer with us.
No, I can't decipher Ally Sloper's Cavalry, please lighten me up!
Eddy Rickenbacker was called 'de rijke(n) bakker' by Flemish soldiers. Phonetical: 'reek' for 'rijk' (rich) and 'b-ah-kkur' is 'bakker' (baker), so the rich baker. I presume there were many more examples like that, those days not every plain soldier could speak English.

regards, Kieffer

Rectalgia · Legend

Ally Sloper's Cavalry