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Post Info TOPIC: Tank Salvage - How did they do it?
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Legend

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Tank Salvage - How did they do it?
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When a tank broke down, or was put out of action, how were they recovered from the field?

I don't mean how did the Germans recover British tanks, I mean how did the British recover their own tanks? A recovery tank? Traction engine? Lots of blokes with spades?

I've seen the odd photo, here and there, of a tank towing another, and I've read a couple of accounts of that in "Tank Warfare" by Mitchell, and "The Boilerplate War" by Foley. But is that how it happened most of the time?

TIA

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Rectalgia


Legend

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The answer, by and large, seems to have been "lots of blokes with spades" - a few paragraphs dealing with British WW1 tank recovery are to be found in "Breakdown - A History of Recovery Vehicles in the British Army" by Brian S Baxter, which can be downloaded from http://hotfile.com/dl/67483782/8350f10/breakdown.-.a.history.of.recovery.vehicles.in.the.british.army.pdf.html. 64Mb PDF. If itis a hassle I suppose I could do some OCR work and publish those few paragraphs.  There are several relevant photos as well.

There is some good discussion, informed in part by the above book, at http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?18713-WW1-Recovery-vehicles.  Again, tank recovery is discussed.  Apart from blokes with spades, there were ad-hoc solutions and tricks of the trade that are worth reading/knowing about.

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Legend

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Thanks, mate. That is an excellent little book (well, the relevant chapter is excellent). There is also a good photo of one of the Gun Carriers fitted with a crane.

I really didn't think "blokes with spades" would be a good answer, but the book, and your good self, confirm that was the most common method.

I wonder if W^D Models would oblige us with a fatigue party for a particularly muddy diorama? (It would also cover up a lot of Airfix's and Emhar's mistakes!)

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Ironsides


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Hi Thanks for posting most interesting heres another thread which may be of interest if you dont know it already that is....

Tank recovery


Cheerswink

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Gwyn Evans


Legend

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There's a chapter on the work of British tank salvage companies in Williams-Ellis' "The Tank Corps".

Gwyn

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Ironsides


Legend

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Thanks Gwyn you can download a pdf copy here:

http://ia700102.us.archive.org/4/items/tankcorps00willgoog/tankcorps00willgoog.pdf

Cheerswink

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 
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Legend

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Thank you, gentlemen.

Ironsides, I had completely forgotten that thread, even though I contributed (in a very small way) to it. And the pdf link is great; saved me $22 on abebooks, which is just about enough for a round of drinks, so I'll be having an "Ivor" this Friday!

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Ironsides


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Am I invitedwink

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 
greendbg


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the chinese labour corp were often used to assist in battlefield recovery of damaged / ditched tanks


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Hughbearson


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It was them, too, who builts fascines for the Mark IVs.

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Hughbearson


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*built

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ZigZag


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I think this  a relevant topic. This is a Salvage tank I build about a year ago. Some things now I would be build in the other way but in general its look OK for me. This is Emhar kit with the engine, transmission and other things. A new that back part made wrong but this is happens before I start to read this Forum.



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Captain Wain


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Apologies for dragging up this old thread.

 

I'm trying to find some info on the Chinese Labour Corps who worked with the Salvage crews (and later Tank Field Battalions).

 

I'm going through the existing personal memoirs, but have found little so far.

 

Anyone have any info?



-- Edited by Captain Wain on Wednesday 12th of March 2014 11:28:18 AM

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MK1 Nut


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Hi Wain,

I found a little mention of the Link

There's a quote there that may help

In his book about the Chinese Labour Corps, Sidney Allinson quotes the work done by the 51st Company of tanks before the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917, when 1,000 British-Chinese soldiers, working 20 hours a day, fitted 350 fascines in 3 weeks. 

 



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Captain Wain


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MK1 Nut wrote:

Hi Wain,

I found a little mention of the Link

There's a quote there that may help

In his book about the Chinese Labour Corps, Sidney Allinson quotes the work done by the 51st Company of tanks before the Battle of Cambrai in November 1917, when 1,000 British-Chinese soldiers, working 20 hours a day, fitted 350 fascines in 3 weeks. 

 

 Excellent, a nice link indeed!

 

From the info on there I went to look onto other areas, and found this article (in pdf format) written about the use of the CLC in tank repair at the Central Workshop.

 

The Chinese Go West

 

 



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Gwyn Evans


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There was a two part article on the Chinese Labour Corps in recent editions of "Tankette", the magazine of the Miniature Armoured Fighting Vehicles Association (MAFVA). Back issues should be available.

Gwyn

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Captain Wain


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Lots of interesting info!

 

I'm trying to find some personal accounts of the salvage crews in literature, anyone got any ideas?

 

Also I'm trying to compile some kind of table concerning tanks out of action, and their fate. Would War Diaries be the best bet? Or official histories of the unit or war?



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Captain Wain


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Does anyone have access to A Peripheral Weapon?: The Production and Employment of British Tanks by David Childs?

 

There's an interesting part there about salvage, and I'm refusing to pay £75+ for the book. Anyone recommend it, or have read it?



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Gwyn Evans


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Don't pay £75! It's available for free! Most UK doctoral theses are available through the British Library website, which is where I got my copy from.

The title of the thesis is "British tanks 1915 - 1918, Manufacture and Employment". As you know, it's by David J. Childs, and was submitted to the Modern History Department of Glasgow University in March 1996. Consequently it's a lot older than people realise. Nevertheless, I would recommend it.

Gwyn

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Lothianman


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Book prices not as much as £75 now - they are a bit lower, but not much lower if P&P is included.

To be more precise, we seem to be dealing with two different works by Dr Childs, and the published book (1999) is almost certainly going to be different from the thesis (1996) - I would expect the book to be edited down from the thesis but possibly with some new info/analysis/second thoughts/examiner's comments not in the thesis. However, I suspect the one is based on the other, at least in substantial part.

It's always better to work/quote from a published book (and fairer to the author) for the reasons above, except where the thesis has stuff not in the book (e.g. details or appendices). 

 If you live near one of the Copyright Libraries (British Library London, Edinburgh, etc.) you should be able to read it on site - also some university libraries. Worth looking at the websites of the nearest ones to see if it is in the catalogue and then inquiring about being a visiting reader. Or museums - the Tank Museum or IWM libraries, for instance. One way is to run through Google Scholar, giving this -

www.worldcat.org/title/peripheral-weapon-the-production-and-employment-of-british-tanks-in-the-first-world-war/oclc/40218762

Alternatively order it on interlibrary loan through your local library - always worth a try. The BLDSC has a copy so this should be possible.

(I'm assuming you are in the UK ...).

I had a look to see if I could find a webpage for Dr Childs in an academic institution but no luck - always worth it to see if he has any other articles. No luck. The 8 articles which cite his book on Google Scholar are not by him either So perhaps he left academia.



-- Edited by Lothianman on Saturday 22nd of March 2014 02:24:44 PM

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Captain Wain


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Thanks both. My local and uni library do not offer this book, but I have suggested to both they buy it. My best bet is London, which by the time I get there would cost close to £50

The thesis does look different to the book, downloading the thesis as we speak!

 

I was kinda hoping it would be a free ebook somewhere, they have a Kindle edition - but £50 is steep for an electronic copy of a book!

 

Will probably have to dig deep and buy a copy.



-- Edited by Captain Wain on Monday 24th of March 2014 11:31:28 AM



-- Edited by Captain Wain on Monday 24th of March 2014 11:32:34 AM

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Lothianman


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All the best. With luck your local library will borrow a copy for you from the BLDSC or one of the other libraries ...

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Anonymous

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For a list of Tanks out of action and their fates try the lists I've compiled on landships Google, they should be a good starting point



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munkeezulu


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I also have photographed copies of the Salvage company war diaries in the PRO, unfortunately inly 3 company is detailed enough to be of any use. Your welcome to a copy, just drop me an e-mail. Robert.martin16@ntlworld.com



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tanks3


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Robert

I don't suppose by any chance there is a nominal roll of officers and men in the diary/history is there?

Tanks3

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Captain Wain


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Hi,

Robert I emailed you :) Thank you for that kind offer!

Also Anonymous, I've checked out the landship google page, I will keep it on my favourites when consulting data :)

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munkeezulu


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tanks3 wrote:

Robert

I don't suppose by any chance there is a nominal roll of officers and men in the diary/history is there?

Tanks3

 Not that I recall, but there are plenty of mentions of men by name and number which might help. I've got 87 photographs of 2nd Salvage Coys war diary (July 1917 onto 1919) if you want copies, but they are 500mb each so I'll have to send a few at a time. E mail me at the above address. I don't have any photographs of the other salvage Coys war diaries, they didn't mention tanks by number, but I seem to remember they were in the PRO (or TNA).



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Captain Wain


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Got them btw Robert, sorry my emails have been playing up!

 

Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to forward on some of my scans from TNA. It's generic info, but I am always happy to send them over :)

 

Also my local library did get Peripheral Weapon, at the cost of £5 and I only had 3 weeks with it!

 

Still worth a read.



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