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Post Info TOPIC: Help needed to identify captured AC
elbavaro


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Help needed to identify captured AC
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Dear all,

please take my apologies if this has been discused before, but I was searching for more than an hour and couldn't find anything.

I have attached some pictures from my collection:

1st pidture shows an AC, captured at the Romanian front. It says it is an russian AC before maintenance.

2nd picture shows this AC already maintained for "1. German war show" in Berlin.

3rd picture shows the reactivated AC during the German post war riots in Freikorps service.

Can anyone identify the AC type?

Thank you for your assistance!

Kind Regards
Chris

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Anonymous

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well known. Reputed to be an Hotchkiss. Don't know from where !



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Ivan


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This is a Russian AC, built in Izhorski work in Kolpino 1915 for 1st mashine-gun platoon of Russian Imperial army (no change with 1st automobile-mashine gun platoon!). Only TWO built. Armour projekt of colonel Grauen. Chassis: Hotchkiss 60 HP.
All two was captured by Germans 1916 on Romanian front. One was repair and under name "Lotta" fighting in Berlin 1919 by Freikorps.

Many German postcards wrote: French, Britain, Romanian... it is no right! It is Russian "Izhorski Hotchkiss".

-- Edited by Ivan on Sunday 6th of March 2011 06:45:47 PM

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elbavaro


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Thanks Ivan! That helped!

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mad zeppelin


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German 10th Army was not on the Romanian front. The vehicles were captured near Wilna/Vilnius in August 1915.

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Ivan


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mad zeppelin wrote:

German 10th Army was not on the Romanian front. The vehicles were captured near Wilna/Vilnius in August 1915.



Why on a postcard wroten: Romanian?

It's crazy: I have 4 postcard with the Hotchkiss, wroten: English, French, Romanian biggrin



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elbavaro


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10th German Army? Ivan didn't write about 10th Army. Or is there a posting I can't see? I see 6 postings including this one.

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Ivan


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elbavaro wrote:

10th German Army? Ivan didn't write about 10th Army. Or is there a posting I can't see? I see 6 postings including this one.


I don't know the army of Germans, there this AC captured. I now only this service in Russian army before.

The Hotchkiss was i Russia as "Brother of Russo-Balt". Izhorsky work built 1914/15 on projekt of Grauen and Dobrschanski 12 AC's:
8x Russo-Balt C 24/40 for 1sr automobie-mashine gun company
1x Russo-Balt L 24/40 for Wild Kavkaz division
1x unknown chassis (maybe Ford?, a litle vehicle) for 5th motorcycle cmpany
2x this Hotchkiss for 1st mashine gun company. Only Hotchkiss have turrels.

-- Edited by Ivan on Monday 7th of March 2011 03:41:06 AM

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mad zeppelin


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elbavaro wrote:

10th German Army? Ivan didn't write about 10th Army. Or is there a posting I can't see? I see 6 postings including this one.


Look at the first picture. It has 'E.K.P. 10' written on the cabin of the vehicle. Etappen-Kraftwagen-Park 10 was the motor transport depot of 10th Army, before being renamed to A.K.P. 10 (Armee-Kraftwagen-Park).
HW 1 means Haupt-Werkstatt or Hilfs-Werkstatt 1.

Both Hotchkiss-based ACs bear inscriptions telling they were 'treated' by E.K.P. 10.

 



-- Edited by mad zeppelin on Monday 7th of March 2011 07:24:55 AM

-- Edited by mad zeppelin on Monday 7th of March 2011 12:28:59 PM

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elbavaro


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Yes, but ..... maybe these are cyrillic letters? Then it would be probably something like in the document attached below?

Regards
Chris

-- Edited by elbavaro on Monday 7th of March 2011 09:37:10 AM

-- Edited by elbavaro on Monday 7th of March 2011 08:57:40 PM

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cyrillic.pdf (10.4 kb)
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Paul Bonnett


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Does this help

closeup.jpg


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elbavaro


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Paul ...

I have seen this - I own the picture since 3 years! But it doesn't answer the question whether the letters are cyrillic or latin.

In this thread we have two different explanations from two persons, who did both (!) excellent research in the past. And as far as I know, both wrote books about tanks/ACs. So who is right?

Of course it makes sense, to maintain an captured AC. And of course it makes sense to write the information on the AC where it has be transported to. But usualy they wrote it with brush and paint or with chark on the AC. But I have never seen it in this professional way. I don't say mad zeppelin is not right! But when I see something I have never seen before, I have to consider that this is something different - maybe!

If you look at the picture, the 2nd "K" looks a bit different to the 1st one. So maybe this "K" is not a latin "K" and maybe all these letters are not latin. What is next? Cyrillic is next of course. But maybe I am wrong. And where comes the different explanations from?


Chris


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kieffer


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Ivan wrote:

All two was captured by Germans 1916 on Romanian front. One was repair and under name "Lotta" fighting in Berlin 1919 by Freikorps.

I think Lotta was in Munich, May 1919

 



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elbavaro


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Well Kiefer .. both cities are possible, because the riots were not all at the same time.

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kieffer


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yes I know, and both cities are possible but I thought the AC's were 'zugeteilt' or dispersed over different Freikorpses, Braunschweig, Magdeburg, Dresden to name a few, but may be they changed location or assisted elsewhere.
This is Lotta, there was a Leni too..in good old Berlin, and a Gerda..
Difficult to reproduce or to read but on the picture is written a date, 1-2May 1919


-- Edited by kieffer on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 12:41:36 PM

-- Edited by kieffer on Tuesday 8th of March 2011 12:43:23 PM

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mad zeppelin


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Two armoured car platoons of the Berlin-based Kokampf (well, in truth Lankwitz-based) were sent to Munich.
Lotta belonged to one of these platoons, which returned to Berlin after the mission.



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elbavaro


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Dear All,

I hope I didn't bother anyone, but .... where have this Ac / these ACs been captured? It isn't clear to me after the two different answers.

Regards
Chris

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Ivan


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elbavaro wrote:

Dear All,

I hope I didn't bother anyone, but .... where have this Ac / these ACs been captured? It isn't clear to me after the two different answers.

Regards
Chris


I believe that the rights Mad Zeppelin - captured at Wilna in 1916, the 10th German army from the 1st machine-gun company of the Russian Army.

P.S. Chris, look at your mail-box.



-- Edited by Ivan on Friday 11th of March 2011 06:23:17 PM

-- Edited by Ivan on Friday 11th of March 2011 06:23:59 PM

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elbavaro


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Thank you Ivan!

And of course thank you mad zeppelin!

-- Edited by elbavaro on Friday 11th of March 2011 07:08:00 PM

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PDA


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there's some other info in these threads

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=63528&p=3&topicID=5195127

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=63528&p=3&topicID=22992041

and there was another, but I can't find it

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elbavaro


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Thank you PDA !

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