Landships II

There I was, happy with my 45 year old Airfix Germans.

Now did the Germans wear Y-straps / Koppeltragegestelle in WW1?

I looked through the Osprey and some other books on the matter as well ashttp://www.landships.freeservers.com/german_earlywar_uniforms.htm but would you think I could find one image clearly showing Y straps? I didn't.

http://www.schipperfabrik.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=117_118_128&products_id=294

sells reproductions and has some interesting details on the real thing's introduction: "In WW1 Y straps were originally worn only by the Cavalry. It was planned that in the Infantry the belt was to be held up by the 1895 pack. As the war progressed Y straps were more widely issued and were worn by Pioneers, Storm Troopers and Assault Troops." This must be, however, read in the context of the author's wish to sell many of them, and references would be more than welcome.

This article on the Koppeltragegestell's introduction makes no mention of WW1:

http://www.mp44.nl/equipment/y_belt.htm

The two broad leather straps very commonly seen on WW1 German infantrymen between ammo pouches and the shoulder straps seem to be the rucksack's straps.

Infantrymen's belt pouches were held up by the back pack straps.  The cavalry Y straps were not an issue item.   After discarding pack packs for static  line duty,  the belt pouches were most often supported by bread bag straps wrapped around the neck.  This was a common field expedient.

As clarification;  the " Y " strap was standard WW1 Cavalry issue,  but not infantry.  They becamee infantry issue in the mid 30's after the adaptation of the smaller cavalry ammunition pouches.

Well, the GWA in the United states doesn't mention anything about Y straps. Many individual re-enactment groups have there own regs. Here's all I could find, you will note that this particular item is listed under REQUIRED UNIFORM AND EQUIPMENT GUIDELINES. http://www.jr459.org/uniform_8.htm

Honestly I'm shocked. I personally never cared before, because I, like the majority just believed that many things on issue in WWII were mostly carried over from the Great War. I mean, being that I am putting together a general representation of a WWI German army Corps, so many of the troops I've collected have these molded already, and I have no other choice but to paint them. Now that we've mentioned that, It also bothers me that so many sets are currently being minted with Y straps and you would think the model makers would catch on. Its like Panzergrau & Feldgrau all over again. But, since their the only sets available I have to take what I can get.

Greetings, Josh

P.S It wouldn't also be my Airfix troops that triggered this thread would it?.

-- Edited by FR73 on Monday 6th of June 2011 06:17:31 AM

-- Edited by FR73 on Monday 6th of June 2011 06:18:16 AM

One more small bit:

The Osprey book about WW1 "Armies in the Balkans" shows a plate of another German specialist wearing Y-straps. It is a member of Rommel's Württemberg Mountain Battaillon in October 1916. The relevant text mentions "infantry support Y-straps".

German Army doctrine preaches Decisiveness, so, to make a decision, I would say Y straps are worn, but not on the outside of the uniform. I see it as a matter of personal choice, as there were many non reg items found on German troops in WWI. Just look at how many "non establishment" stormtroop formations wore mountain gear, or how many different variations there were on "Full marching order". Also, since I failed to touch on this in my last post, the cross straps are an error, for expedient purposes I guess airfix sculpted the standing rifle man along the lines of a G.I.
I picked up on that right away too when formed the X. Korps 2 years ago.

Greetings, Josh

No its fine James, I can say that whatever advantage the Germans thought Y straps possesed in WWII may have also been true in WWI. I just find the idea of all these years of soldier making with such an obvious error mind boggling. It absolutely unravels the thread of everything I thought to be historically true about His Majesties Army. As I look back through my own Osprey books, (And I have alot, nearly every title on WWI Germany produced to date.) I also notice there is no reference made to Y straps on infantry. But like I said before, what can I do? they'd look terrible if I filed off all those Y straps. Oh well, Like I said when I started this hobby, a wise Sous chef told me, "It doesn't have to be spot on every time, It just needs to be a general representation of what you are trying to do" but please, When will someone produce a set of WWI German engineers so I can pawn off these WW2 Revells!

Greetings, Josh

Well the figures in HäT's German Heavy Weapons set have no Y-straps. But they are awful.

Their artillery crew figures haven't either, as they hardly wear any webbing at all.

Their German Jäeger and Infantry figures probably have them, but as they are wearing full pack it is hard to see anyway. The kneeling loading figure in the infantry set seems to wear a set of Y-straps, though: http://www.hat.com/Othr7/Sander60P.html

Must check the Revell and Emhar sets.

I think it likely the Kaiser would wear cavalry equipment hence the straps...

so does that mean the Airfix infantry are good for dismounted cavalry? I always thought their rifles were more like carbines...

Cheers

This is highly inconvenient. Austrian Assault Troops uniform, 1917:

This turned up in a WW1 French uniform search. The guy on the right has the nipples on his helmet, but it looks suspiciously WW2ish to me. But anyway, I remembered this thread about German straps, and thought it might be of interest:

It's from this page:

http://www.histoire-fr.com/troisieme_republique_premiere_guerre_mondiale_1.htm

I think 30s. There are some similar pics in German Trench Mortars and Infantry Mortars 1914-45 by Wolfgang Fleischer. Note the boots and the scutcheons on the helmets.