Landships II

Date: Oct 16, 2005

mystery French field gun

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Wonderful images, Jon - are you bidding for them?

Now, pure speculation this as I have not seen any other images of this gun, but Ian Hogg's 'Encyclopedia of Artillery' has a table of data for heavy guns which mentions a 22cm gun Modele 1917 (the same year as the Schneider mortier), 28 calibres long. I'm sure Peter will shed some light, though.

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Actually, I think the Schneider mortier was 1916, so the 22-cm canon was the year after, but you get my drift...

Date: Oct 16, 2005

The Schneider M17 220-mm gun:

http://www.strategyplanet.com/panzergeneral/ww2/Weapons/towed_artillery/france/gundata/220mm_L_mle_1917S.html

I'll get me coat...

Date: Oct 17, 2005

Roger, thanks for doing some investigation. I decided I couldn't afford to buy these photos; they had an opening bid of $10 each if I remember correctly.

I'm starting to think the gun in the photos was some kind of prototype that didn't go into production. Of course, Peter K. must be allowed to speak.

Date: Oct 17, 2005

Great of you posting all these interesting images. Keep it up!

I will check to see if I can find som clue to the guns identity in my papers.

All the best
/Peter K

Date: Oct 17, 2005

Hello Every one

I am not sure, But it looks like a Canon de 240mle 1884 I have attached some pictures from an old French book on Heavy Artillery, Maybe some one can translate the French for us. It looks very close to the pictures posted by Jon.

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/240a.jpg

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/240b.jpg

All the Best

Tim R.

Date: Oct 17, 2005

Well after I took a closer look, they are not the same. Sorry, I guess I got ahead of myself.:wink:

All The Best

Tim R.

Date: Oct 17, 2005

It's easily done, Tim...

In the meantime, I've scanned in a photo of a Schneider 280 in German service during WW2. Happily, it was taken from virtually the same angle as one of the Mystery Gun images...

I have labelled them both as although there is no doubt in my mind that the Mystery Gun uses the same carriage as the Schneider 280, the cradle has been modified:

Length A is, I believe, the same for both guns. However, B & C are shorter on the Mystery Gun than on the Schneider 280. This indicates shorter recoil cylinders and recuperators.

Date: Oct 18, 2005

Hey guys,
I'm not sure of the designation, but I know for sure that the gun in question is a 240mm howitzer, and that it is in fact built on the carriage of the 280. It was used pretty extensively by the AEF during the war, and was also made under license in the US just after the war.
I wish I could tell you more, but my source-book is back at my parent's house.

Anyway, I hope that helps!
Matt

Date: Oct 19, 2005

That's really good info, Matt, thanks. When you can, see if you can find the reference for that, there may be more photos...?

I think I've just figured out what the wheels on the barrel are for - they're to slide it along the 'rails' either side of the cradle (labelled 'A') when assembling the gun.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Thanks for everyone's help with this. Matt, you must be correct about AEF usage and US production. I found support for this via the following photo on eBay. The limestone building and visible auto fender seem to indicate it was taken in the American midwest in the 1950s, maybe at an Army post (Ft Riley, Ft Leavenworth, Ft Sill?). I suppose there is a good chance this piece was melted down during one of Korean War scrap drives (insert cringing affect).

Wouldn't this piece be classified as a "gun" and not a howitzer?

Date: Oct 29, 2005

What a marvellous find, Jon, thanks for posting that.

As for whether or not it was a howitzer, I think that has more to do with its elevation and role. The Germans, for example, had howitzers with long barrels (e.g. the 21cm M�rser 18, which was 29-calibres in length), so don't be fooled by the long barrel of this weapon - it might still be a howitzer.

Date: Nov 4, 2005

I'm sorry I've been so long in replying, guys, I just recently sold my car and have no way of returning to get my reference book.

On that note, I'm still not sure of it's French designation. However, I do know in American service it was called the 240mm Howitzer M1918. It was in use as late as the late thirties with the US Army as both a training gun and a coastal defense weapon. There's actually a picture of one being used on one of the Hawaiian islands in Osprey's book on Hawaiian defenses of WW2.

As to the picture, Jon, that could actually be any American base; parts of Fort Knox here in Kentucky still look like that!

Oh, my lost book that I know has that howitzer in it is the "Standard Guide to U S World War II Tanks and Artillery", which is a fairly crappy book, all told, but has an entire chapter devoted to modernised World War 1 artillery used during the second war which is pretty good.

Anyway, I hope that helps!
Matt

Date: Nov 5, 2005

Sounds like an interesting book, Matt, any chance of a few scans of pics?

Meanwhile, I just found this postcard of the 240 in US service:

http://www.vintageviews.org/vv-3/military/pages/mil01_003.html