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Post Info TOPIC: Landsturm/Landwehr questions


Corporal

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Landsturm/Landwehr questions
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I know that they both wore the m1860 shako and, to me surprisingly, the m1813 cap but i have seen many photographs and drawings of them wearing the m1860 shakos both with AND without their covers during wartime. Was this just because of supply shortages that gave the landsturm and landwehr thier unique appearance in the first place or was there another reason for coverless shakos. Another question, how long in to the war did they wear the m1813 cap and m1860 shako, i am guessing they were some of the last to recieve helmets. And i am also sort of confused on the difference between the landsturm and landwehr since their similarities and them both being created in 1813. Any help is appreciated.



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Legend

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Hello, sir. I think the reason you've not had a reply until now is that it's a fairly long question with an even longer answer. I'll do what I can.

AFAIK there was no cover for the 1869 or 1888 Landsturm and Landwehr shako. Jäger had light green covers for theirs. Are you confusing the two?

Landwehr were 1st Reserve troops, and Landsturm 2nd Reserve, broadly speaking. This explains it rather well :http://greatwars-gamburd.blogspot.com/2008/10/landsturm-und-landwehr-explained.html

1813 is beyond my scope, but IIRC the Dienstmütze was a quite tall peaked cap, not unlike the NY Fire Department's parade cap. The stiffener was removed in the field, giving it the crushed shape.

I've seen photos of Landwehr on the Eastern Front still wearing the shako. You're right - the more active fronts were first on the list for new kit. Occupied Russia, especially after the surrender, was bottom of the pile.

I probably haven't got all of this right. These sites might help if you do a bit of digging:

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=12

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pt/index.htm

I'll have a look at some old notes and see if I can improve the above.

Chin chin.



-- Edited by James H on Wednesday 22nd of February 2012 11:53:29 PM

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Pat


Commander in Chief

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This thread

http://landships.activeboard.com/t37967656/zvezda-172-germans/

has some info on your topic.



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Corporal

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Thanks, that solves the confusion between the too and its not that im getting them confused with jagers, i have seen some photos with captions that say "landwehr" or "landsturm" that show them with shako covers. There is one of these photos i want to point out that i saw in an osprey book that shows a group of elderly men with shakos that have plain covers marching being led by an officer wearing a pickelhaube with color and it refers to them as landsturm, one of the elderly landsturm has a very long, white walrus beard, it mentions this in the captions also. so this must show that the landsturm wore shako covers right? and the shakos had no cockade thing sticking out at the top like jager shakos have.

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Legend

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I'd be interested to see the pics, if you can manage it.



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Legend

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Good Lord! looks like he's almost devoured a small seal head-first (thinking of Billy Connolly's description of a highlander where the correct comestible item was "otter").



-- Edited by Rectalgia on Friday 24th of February 2012 06:16:47 AM

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Corporal

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Here is the one with the landsturm marching with the guy with the walrus beard



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Legend

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Impressive whiskers!

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Legend

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It's possible that the gent with the swallowtail face furniture was inspired by Alfred von Tirpitz, who was something of a fashion icon during this period and much imitated. I've also heard it compared to an indecent act with a squirrel.

As regards the 1813 cap and its derivatives, I am proceeding further into this uncharted territory. Wandering a bit outside our remit, but below is a Pommeranian Landwehr Mütze, 1813-15 pattern.

Here is also a v nice plate of Landwehr, 1813+:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Tafel_Landwehr_1813.jpg



-- Edited by James H on Friday 24th of February 2012 01:55:43 PM

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Corporal

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The captions show some different types of landwehr like jagers and artillery. Were these types of landwehr around in 1914?

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Pat


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Another summary with lots of images of caps:

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Landsturm.html



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