The prototype(s) for the Mark V* is(are) said to have been built at Central Workshops in France by splitting a Mk IV in two and stretching it by six feet; is it known whether the roof of the prototype was modified with a turret/cupola like the final design, or if it was much like the donor Mk IV?
My instinct is to say that the lengthened Mk IV would have been just that, with no embellishments. I doubt that the Army in France would have been inclined to lend any Mk Vs to be mucked about with, though it seems quite likely that the thought would have crossed Workshops's minds. AFAIK the experiment was repeated at Bov with a Mk V, so that might have incorporated the rear cupola. But the cupola for the production Mk V* was a new design, so I doubt that the standard Mk V version appeared anywhere else.
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Thanks James. My query is because I wonder if it might make an interesting model, and if a conversion of a Mk IV kit could be done without too much hassle (extra track length aside). I thought I'd read somewhere (on Landships/the forum, naturally) that a Mk V was converted, so your thoughts about Bov doing so rings a bell.
As for Central Workshops, well, the job they did making a Whippet live up to it's name shows that they were capable of extensive engineering work, not just fixing broken tanks. That fast Whippet included a Wilson transmission from a Mk V AFAIK, as well as some bespoke rear track frames and all the mods to the engine deck and the suspension too; perhaps they were able to lay their hands on a Mk V for experimental uses. Certainly they were able to perform substantial modifications to the structure and mechanicals of a tank, hence I wondered if they might have taken it upon themselves to add a cupola to the Mk IV whilst they were at it.
I didn't mean it in quite that way - a poor turn of phrase on my part. Rather I meant that they might have added a cupola because there was sound reason to do so and they were capable of the extra labour required.
You have a good point though, Gwyn: Central Workshops probably only went as far as necessary to see if it was technically viable, which suggests a plain Mk IV roof.
-- Edited by TinCanTadpole on Wednesday 20th of June 2012 11:40:46 PM
I'd be surprised if Central Workshops made work for themselves for no obvious reason. As I recall, their records show that jobs were costed in terms of man hours and resources tightly controlled.
2 - would anyone hazard a guess as to how the side panels were dealt with? By this I mean that the Mk IV side panel just aft of the sponson starts to curve/kink away from the horizontal in its rear half, unsuitable for sticking an extension in. Do you think they would have cut that side panel to narrow it (something like the narrower panel the Mk V has), which would also match up with the end of the horizontal section of the roof - immediately behind the top hatch?
Relating to question 2, the thought occurs, depending on timescale, that the shorter side panel of the Mk V may have been influenced by such an experiment, in a bid to maximise similarity between Mk V and Mk V* (the shorter panel is the boundary of the extension, which only the V* needs).
Hi , I did as you suggested and built a model, though the inspiration came from reading Richard Pullen's book -Landships of Lincoln. I used an Emhar female tank as the basis, because that's what I found in the stash, with leftover bits from the Emhar tadpole.
I was told at Damyns Hall last weekend that they should be finished in grey, which I suppose for a ship is correct, but what is the current wisdom on what a tank of the period would be painted?
For the model conversion I didn’t actually cut the Mk.IV literally in half, I cut the sides and roof separately at different places, so as the keep the best details on each and make best use of the details on the inserted bits. I did try to add a few rivet heads that were obviously missing, but I didn't get too fussed about it.
Grey sounds like an interesting finish... Isn't that how some main production Rhomboids left the factory anyway? With 'war paint' being applied at the point of issue? Sure I have seen that alluded to somewhere.
Would the grey have been primer, or top coat, do you think?
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The problem with using a Mk IV cut and extended is that there is still a lot of work to be done - especially in the area of the engine and the forward face and top of the front "turret" ( a term used on manufacturing drawings supplied by Bovington) being different, side plates differently riveted, extra machine guns and a door, the mud chutes being a different size, etc, etc.
The conversion I am doing from a Mk IV to a V* has been on hold until I have got the correct machine guns as the Emhar ones are an abortion. A friend is casting in resin a French Hotchkiss suitably modified to the English version by me. Once these are done, I can get on with fixing the rear half sides of the tank - a nightmare!!
Tony, I think you are talking about changing Emhar's Mark IV into a Mark V*, whereas this thread is about the experiment said to have been done where, in France, they cut a Mark IV and lengthened it by adding panels in the middle, in effect making a Mark IV*, at the same time as, in England, they were making Tadpole tails.
Grey? There are a couple of passages in A Company of Tanks where he says the tanks looked like grey hulks gliding past. However, I think the consensus is that they were a muddy shade of brown, and Watson's comments can be explained by him seeing them in the pre-dawn light on a misty morning when everything appears monochrome.
