Landships II

eugene · Field Marshal

Italian tanks

Tim R · Hero

Eugene

I have done my best to find a picture for you, I am sorry if have came up dry.But I did run up on some interesting information:

"

20 of these tanks were sent by France to Italy in 1918. They received little use or interest by the Italians. Their fate is unknown.

Italian interest in tracked laying armored vehicles dates back to September 1916, when the first British appeared. The Italians succeeded in obtaining a Schneider tank from France shortly afterwards, and tests of the tank sparked Italian imagination. Due to military requirements on the Western Front, requests for more tanks from France met with negative results until 1918, when another Schneider and three Renault FT tanks were delivered to Italy. In the interval between the acquisition of the Schneider and the second delivery, however, Fiat had undertaken the building of a tank of its own design, known as the Fiat 2000 "

This information came from TANKS!!!

Good Luck on your search

All The Best

Tim R.

Stoyan · Sergeant

Tim R wrote:

Eugene

"
20 of these tanks were sent by France to Italy in 1918.

Not 20 and all 2

Date: Dec 13, 2005

I know of at least one picture, I might have more, but they are at home, and I am not...

Mario

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Sorry Guys, I thought I had logged on succesfully!

Will be back with pictures later,

Mario

Tim R · Hero

I am not sure on the 20 either Stoyan, but the information came from TANKS not me.

I look forward to seeing those pictures Mario!!!!!

All the Best

Tim R.

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

This is the first one.

About that 20 vs. 2 discussion: Italy wanted to order 20, but realised that France might have difficulty in delivering such numbers, and settled for the two sent seperately and tested with "relatively satisfactory results", meaning they were not overly impressed, but didn't think it was junk either. I found two pictures, which isn't much for the vehicle with the distinction of being Italy's first ever tank...

Mario

-- Edited by Mario Wens at 22:02, 2005-12-13

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

The second picture I've seen in more than one book. It is a line-up apparently in 1927 in Forte Tiburtino. Next to the Schneider are the FIAT 2000 and 3000 and a Renault FT17 re-armed with a SIA machinegun.

Mario

-- Edited by Mario Wens at 22:06, 2005-12-13

Roger Todd · Legend

What a cool photo, Mario, thanks! Love the Fiat 2000 parked there, the photo really shows off its size!

Tim R · Hero

Thanks Mario, The picture's are great. Did the Italians plan any conversions for the Schneider??Also do you have any operational information on the Italians using the Ft-17 and conversions they may have done or was planning to do??

All The Best

Tim R.

eugene · Field Marshal

MArio

Those are some supper pictures I never new the fait 2000 was sooooooo big!

nice ft-17/fiat 3000 comparisson

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Tim R wrote:

Thanks Mario, The picture's are great. Did the Italians plan any conversions for the Schneider??Also do you have any operational information on the Italians using the Ft-17 and conversions they may have done or was planning to do?? All The Best Tim R.

Tim,

next friday is my last day at work and then I get to finally take the vacation that due to Project problems was denied this summer, so I will have FIVE glorious weeks in all to do some modelling and answer some questions. Also I will post some pictures, like what I found on the Alfa-Romeo Halftrack recently. I will try to answer your questions then.

Mario

Centurion · Legend

I've got a Fiat 2000 question. I believe that one Fiat 2000 was sent to Lybia along with some Fiat 3000s to support the war against the Sennusi. I think this was probably sometime between 1919 and 1922. Does any one have any details of this deployment?

Centurion · Legend

Mario Wens wrote:

This is the first one.
tested with "relatively satisfactory results", meaning they were not overly impressed, but didn't think it was junk either. Mario -- Edited by Mario Wens at 22:02, 2005-12-13

When I worked implementing some systems in Milan "relatively satisfactury results" or similar phase was a polite way of our hosts saying "its crap but we're too polite to say so"

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Centurion wrote:

I've got a Fiat 2000 question. I believe that one Fiat 2000 was sent to Lybia along with some Fiat 3000s to support the war against the Sennusi. I think this was probably sometime between 1919 and 1922. Does any one have any details of this deployment?

Robert,

Check my avatar: it's that self same FIAT! Sporting huge FIAT logo's it was more of a publicity stunt than a usefull employement of armour. Can you imagine this big lumbering giant chasing the nimble Senussi through the desert? By the time the crew had the engine fired up the enemy would be nowhere to be seen...

If there will in fact be a model by Mr Panzer it might be an idea for Peter to release a sheet with this logo? I'd be delighted to provide the files needed.

I'll post the pictures I know of the Lybian FIAT 2000 and will see if there is any detailed account of it's "deployment", if there in fact was more of it than just posing for the camera.

Mario

-- Edited by Mario Wens at 16:27, 2005-12-14

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Centurion wrote:

When I worked implementing some systems in Milan "relatively satisfactury results" or similar phase was a polite way of our hosts saying "its crap but we're too polite to say so"

Granted,

But in the style of 'Fronte Terra', the Edizione Bizzarri series from the seventies, it would more likely mean exactly what it says: relatively OK, but not great. They did not scrap the order for 19 more and took delivery of the second tank after the first tests, so it would seem they did not see it as totally useless after all.

Mario

-- Edited by Mario Wens at 16:32, 2005-12-14

Tim R · Hero

Thank You Mario!!

I look forward to your answers. And the Alf-Romao Halftrack information.

All the Best

Tim R.

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Robert & Tim,

Here two pics of the FIAT 2000 in Libia, and to prove to Tim that the FT-17 were used operationally one of two FT-17 in Tripolitania. Unfortunately both are undated.

The first of the FT-17s has been re-armed with a Lewis gun!

Mario

Roger Todd · Legend

Mario Wens wrote:

If there will in fact be a model by Mr Panzer it might be an idea for Peter to release a sheet with this logo?

Just what I thought when I saw those photos (which I saw first as I scrolled up from the bottom)!

I forgot to add, Mario, awesome photos! Magnifique!

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 22:02, 2005-12-14

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Roger Todd wrote:

I forgot to add, Mario, awesome photos! Magnifique!

Roger,

all curtesy of:

Lucio Ceva & Andrea Curami: La Meccanizzazione dell'Esercito fino al 1943 (Roma, 1989/1994).

(see Italian Semovente 105/14 SP Gun thread)

Mario

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Mario Wens wrote:

Roger, all curtesy of: Lucio Ceva & Andrea Curami: La Meccanizzazione dell'Esercito fino al 1943 (Roma, 1989/1994).

That was a bit too fast, I'm afraid. The first FIAT 2000 picture is from part one of the Fronte Terra series, which - as so often was the case with military publications in Italy in the seventies - ended well before the intended series was completed. What a shame, as they are stunning books!

Mario

Michel Boer · Brigadier

Mario, I think I'm going to invite myself to visit you in the next five weeks to browse through your books. I've started to help Peter with designing decals, and this big Fiat looks like an attractive challenge. Drop me an e-mail if it's Ok for you.

Michel.

Tim R · Hero

Thanks a Million Mario, I love the Ft-17, I have never seen one with a Lewis gun.

All the best

Tim R.

Matt Heil · Lieutenant

I have to be honest, I always used to think the Fiat 2000 was a big piece of junk, but looking at those pictures, I think I've suddenly, miraculously been converted. I've been saved, I can see the light, now! ...ehr, I mean, I'll settle down, now.

Also, are you sure that's a Lewis gun in that FT, and not the Fiat-Revelli Modello 14? I'm not sure if it's because the photo is so dark and grainy, but I don't see the "gaping hole" that is the muzzle of a Lewis. It seems to me that it would make more sense for the Italians to rearm it with their standard heavy MG, rather than a foreign weapon. Just my 2 cents.

Neat photos, and thanks for sharing them!
Matt

Mario Wens · Lieutenant

Matt Heil wrote:

Also, are you sure that's a Lewis gun in that FT, and not the Fiat-Revelli Modello 14? I'm not sure if it's because the photo is so dark and grainy, but I don't see the "gaping hole" that is the muzzle of a Lewis. It seems to me that it would make more sense for the Italians to rearm it with their standard heavy MG, rather than a foreign weapon. Just my 2 cents.

Matt,

It was not my own interpretation, just the translation of what the Italian Cation of the book (by the Historical Branch of the Italian Army) said. Who am I to argue with them? I will check the original print in the book, which I reduced a bit in quality to keep room for more pics on the server, sorry

Mario