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Post Info TOPIC: Barbed wire and pickets


Hero

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Barbed wire and pickets
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Just had the "test" etch for the above.It needs some mior adjustments.Any comments????



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Barry John


Legend

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Excellent!wink



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Major

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Great idea, will go very well with your wiring party figures!

Mike



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Captain

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Barry...

you`re a expert for special things of the great war!!!

I only miss some relaxing Germans in the moment...*hahaha

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Hero

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Looks marvelous but how about an extra ten strands of barbed wire
Paul

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Hero

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Guy's

Many thanks for the feedback,all positive.I must be doing something right at last !!!!

I should have said that it is all down to Neil Mosss who is great at doing these etch bits.

As I said this is a test etch.It may be an idea to do 2 etches one for the barbed wire and one for the pickets.

What do you think ??????



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Barry John


Hero

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I like the barbed wire a lot. It's badly needed in the small scale! But I'm less impresssed by the picket fences... the real ones were made of twisted rod. They're easily replicated by real wire and look very realistic even in small scale, something that flat PE pickets won't ever do. My suggestion is to make 100% of the PE sheet of the barbed wire, and a set of instructions suggesting how to twist a lenght of clip wire to make the pickets. A question: were these metallic picket fences just British or Germans also used them?

1496239127_f3a2160671.jpg



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Major

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I think for most the flat etch will probably be fine, it would be difficult to make 3d posts with eyes at the top from wire I think, but would be interested to see if it can be done.

Mike



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Hero

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You can twist the bottom successfully using two pairs of pliers.

One way to make the pickets more round would be to dip them in paint or pva.



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Barry John


Hero

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Etched parts like pickets look better with one or two coats of pva or an application of thick paint. Paper clip wire may be too thick for small scale but garden tying wire is thinner and easier to bend. Wikipedia has a page on wiring parties and the use of pickets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_party

How about one etch of wire and one of pickets and wire cutters ?

Paul



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Hero

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Paul

Getting 2 etches done,one with just barbed wire the other with barbed wire and pickets.

Wire cutters and other tools will be done in an other etch.

Any ideas of what other tools would be suitable for this etch????



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Barry John


Hero

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Nice!
Entrenching tools, both from the Allied and Axis troops (picks, shovels, axes, trowels) whatever the wiring parties might have carried along to make new or to maintain their trenches and could be scattered around in a diorama. Buckets (as one part "flats" to bend and make tridimensional). A thing that is often overlooked in PE sets: a nice, clear instruction sheet. This one might include the approximate distances between each picket, how many strands were used, etc. etc. That's a great bonus for an aftermarket part, and would be of great value to customers.

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Hero

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Barry
Small wooden spools, for carrying the wire. and how about gloves. Also, I'm not sure if they would have used wire stretching tools ?
Paul

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Legend

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Photo (zoomable) here, showing large spools in the background. Not WW1 I think, but still ... Looks like a training situation:

http://www.art.com/products/p4173071407-sa-i4803882/making-barbed-wire-entanglements.htm

I seem to recall using much smaller spools of similar design, with maybe 2 ft spool width, perhaps less, between the wooden (1"x4" planks?) cross-piece ends - the central "axle" protruding each end and which two men could run out very quickly, or one man with little difficulty, speed depending on incentive . This being a much later date but some things don't change much. Hmmm - it was then very nearly as close to WW1 as we now are to those far-off days of my youth, come to think of it - how time flies! But, no photo, no proof. To excuse my haziness, apart from the inevitable effects of the effluxion of time, we mostly used Dannert wire, which is deployed very differently (and with some care and caution).

Neat selection of infantry wire-cutters here by the way - http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?135351-Wire-cutters-and-pliers-of-WWI - and to diverge slightly.

I don't believe wire tensioning would be used for entanglements and obstacles - that is more for the lesser obstacle of "fencing" which is economical and looks nice but is generally far more easily breached. But, as always, I could be wrong.



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Hero

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Paul

Thanks,have you any idea of what the spools looked like.I have been going through my books etc and am getting quite confused !!!! (nothing new there)



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Barry John


Legend

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Several photos - German field engineers setting up entanglements and barbed wire manufacture:

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Barbed_Wire/Barbed_Wire_01.htm

And British - "later electrified?" - a bit doubtful, I would think.

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Barbed_Wire/Barbed_Wire_02.htm



-- Edited by Rectalgia on Saturday 6th of October 2012 06:46:42 PM

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Hero

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Wooden spools like this but with 2 cross pieces, and the picture is for discussion purposes only

Paul

WIREMSB_lrg.jpg



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Private

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Paperclip line may be too thick a small scale, but thin garden wire, easy to bend.

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Hero

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There will be 2 etches,one with barbed wire and pickets the other just barbed wire.

Sorting out a price.

Many thanks.



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Barry John


Hero

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To go with the etches as suggested by you. The enclosed a pic from one of the threads.It will be possible to do them etch (that I could not beleive !!!) but what is needed is an idea of the scale. Can anyone tell me the size of any of the cutters in the picture.

Also anything else that could go on the etch.

Cheers



-- Edited by baldwin on Thursday 18th of October 2012 10:05:04 AM

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Barry John
Rob


Legend

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I can certainly help with sizes of the top left folding wire cutters as I've got a nice 1917 example made by Chater Lea Ltd!

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Legend

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The US M1910 pliers have the most minimal grip - taking ergonomics into account, that (the more or less parallel parts) should be in the 100-110mm or 4 inches range (i.e. palm width). Looking at the carrier for same, the wire hanger hook for attachment to a webbing belt should work out at about 60mm across the shoulders (the widest extent) to fit the attachment eyelet spacings of the belts (60mm - 2 3/8 inches - centre to centre which, I think, was and remains the standard, to this day). Hopefully those more or less tie in, in a gauging sense, with Rob's measurements of the folding cutters, whatever those measurements might be, and you're in business to gauge out the whole lot.

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Rob


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Photos and dimensions of my folding wirecutters up here for interest http://landships.activeboard.com/t51338973/british-folding-wire-cutters-1917/

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Hero

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I sent Alex a test of the etch and he has sent me this.



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Barry John
Rob


Legend

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Great! Love the figure carrying the pickets. They're surprisingly heavy, the amount he's carrying is about the limit

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Rob


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Here's one still in use at Gallipoli - at Sedd Ul-Bahr Fort overlooking V Beach, where the SS River Clyde went aground in the landings in 1915



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Legend

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Rob wrote:

Great! Love the figure carrying the pickets. They're surprisingly heavy, the amount he's carrying is about the limit


That's a useful observation Rob.



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Rob


Legend

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I've carried them before and carrying three for any distance would be very uncomfortable, can't think of what the weight is (can find out if anyone likes) but if I recall correctly one picket weighs more than the SMLE rifle

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Hero

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Alex got the 3 figure from this picture. Makes you realise how many men would have been in the wiring part.



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Barry John
Rob


Legend

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This photo shows Barbed wire spools as described above

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mark_IV_supply_tank_AWM_C04889.jpeg

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Hero

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Just had this pic of the W^D barbed wire as used by Mike F. Looks OK



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Barry John


Field Marshal

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Looks very good to me, the pickets don't look two dimensional at all.



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Has anyone else noticed "new and improved" seems to mean it doesn't work as well as it used to?

 

Rob


Legend

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Doesn't look ok to me. Looks wonderful!

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Hero

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Very nice! It just need a tiny rotting corpse hanging from it!

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Hero

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Diego

Oh my God !!!!! How do you want the figures whitemetal or resin ?????????????



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Barry John


Hero

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Yellowish/greenish resin would be adequate?ashamed



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Hero

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if you anneal the brass would it be possible to add some twist to the wire ?

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Hero

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The etch is nickel silver,a lot more user friendly than brass.



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Barry John


Hero

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Is it possible to add some twist to the wire, with it being nickel-silver ? imslow.gif



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Hero

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Yes.The other thing is that the srips of barbed wire can be soldered for longer lenghts.



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Barry John
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