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Post Info TOPIC: Can anyone identify these two mortars
Tim R


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Can anyone identify these two mortars
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Gentleman, hello Can anyone identify these two mortars? All the best TimR http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-1-Wk-Erbeutete-franz-Minenwerfer-Morser-Granatwerfer-im-Felde-Soldaten-TOP-/390518218268?pt=Militaria&hash=item5aecb31e1c#ht_4159wt_922 Sorry for the long link, my iPad would not allow me to post photo, if anyone can help with this I would much appreciate it.

-- Edited by Tim R on Friday 4th of January 2013 05:36:57 AM


Short link



-- Edited by Rectalgia on Friday 4th of January 2013 07:02:14 AM

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Pzkpfw-e


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-- Edited by Pzkpfw-e on Friday 4th of January 2013 02:57:05 PM

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Tim R


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Thanks for posting the pictures Pzkpfw-e. All the best Tim r

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Rectalgia


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For what it's worth, I have reservations about publishing "here" images and documentation that someone is trying to sell on ebay. I would be happier with links (fully appreciating that those will disappear shortly). What are "our" values on this? Answering Tim's query is the priority of this topic of course, just saying ...

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Dresden


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I did finally find out, they are Austrian  Kloben Mortars, see the newer post about Auatrian Mortars properly identified by  Arie Dijkhuis, 

a member of this forum.

 

dresden



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Dresden


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 better views



-- Edited by Dresden on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 03:47:57 PM

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Rectalgia


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Thanks Dresden ...

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Tim R


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   Gentelamen

 

     I thank you for trying to find out what these mortars are, But I must point out that they are not the mortars you have added photos of, and I see very little resembalance to the afor mintioned Kloben Mortars. This said I am not saying  they are not of Kloben design or that they are not Austrian, or at least in the photo they are being used by Germans/Austrians. But their again even in the other post by Arie Dijkhuis, he has identified the small mortar portrayed in Dresdens photos. I think personally more investigation is needed.

 

All the Best

 

Tim R

 



-- Edited by Tim R on Monday 4th of March 2013 04:27:50 PM

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Dresden


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Tim,

I can see your point and it's well made, however having worked at an arsenal for many years I can assure you things do change.

The pictures I posted here even lead me to believe there was more than one size, the B&W photo here in my post shows a rather large 

mortar, unless the photographer played some games with perspective. I have to do all my research on the net as I live in the middle of

North America and there no museums to visit here and I have little access to Austrian Military files.

Considering that there are only three WW1 spigot guns I know of, The Austrian invented Granatenwerfer 1915, the Belgian Van Duren, and 

the new for me, information on the Austrian Kloben system. The only rifle grenade using a spigot was the French Dr type.

I saw similarities in the design, yet even looking at the pictures the locking wing nuts are different on the guns. 

I would invite anybody to help with more information or opinion and share with all of us that have an interest, thanks for the posting, lets

keep looking, anybody in Austria? 

I have a strong interest in Mortars and Trench Artillery, Grenades and Rifle Grenades.

Dresden



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Rectalgia


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That's interesting. Discussed in http://landships.activeboard.com/t20772055/trench-mortars-at-gallipoli/.  AWM picture and notes at http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P01850.004, copied below (no, I don't think he is just about to fire with that man standing right there).

japanese_Mortar_Gallipoli_1915_AWM_P01850.004.jpg



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kkfj1


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Japan also used spigot mortars in WW1(in Tsingtao), and also exported it to Australia who used them in Gallipoli.
see here(in Japanese): http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%91%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E8%BF%AB%E6%92%83%E7%A0%B2

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Tim R


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 Gentlemen

I ran across this mortar while searching for information etc.., on the afore mentioned mortar. It has a  slight resemblance to the ones in the original post. But I don't think they are related, but I found it interesting and thought I would share.

Mortier de tranchée Negrei 250mm Mle 1916 à Bucarest, Mortierul Negrei in Romanian

This is all I can find on it:

 The Negrei mortar,  250 mm caliber, model 1916 was a heavy artillery piece designed by Colonel Gabriel Negrei . The gun and its carriage were built in Romania in 1916

Photo's are from the Ferdinand first National Military Museum in Bucharest

Site with information regarding Colonel Gabriel Negrei

http://enciclopediaromaniei.ro/wiki/Gabriel_Negrei

All The Best

Tim R

 

 

 

 

 



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Dresden


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The japanese had two spigot mortars in WW2, a 50mm on a light base shot a square bomb, similar to the British 2 inch Vickers mortar.

The other was a MONSTER 32cm that fired a large finned bomb from a spigot, a true spigot mortar.

A friend of mine who was on Okinowa with the 96th Infantry division saw them fired for real, he said, : There was a loud boom and we saw a huge rocket like thing flying towards us, then we lost our curiousity and took shelter, the resulting explosion dug a hole thirty feet across."



-- Edited by Dresden on Friday 8th of March 2013 01:43:58 AM

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Paul Bonnett


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I used google translate on the ebay photo and it said "captured french mortars", does this add some light on the matter ?
Paul

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Ironsides


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Yes its say's "captured french Mortars" on the ebay listing, and hand written on the card in german is "Fransosisher minenwerfer" "french mortars" which looks like it may be original the author though could be mistaken, however neither looks like the 58mm no2 or 58mm type1 bis though they have similaritys, probarbly as many similaritys as they do with many other mortars of this type so could be French Italian? German or Austrian....

Bear in mine many mortars were copied and the perspective is missleading as to the size which I think may be quite small, the look on the face of the sledge hammer guy gives me the impression its meant to be a joke so it probarbly is....

Just some thoughtswink

Cheerssmile



-- Edited by Ironsides on Friday 8th of March 2013 12:41:35 PM

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 
Tim R


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 Gentelman

I don't buy that they are French, even with the inscription. They do not resemble anything I have ever seen. They resemble the Romanian mortar I spoke of in an earlier post (Of course that does not make them the same, or Romanian). I am no expert, but I do know that photo's get mislabeled, especially artillery, tanks, armored cars etc.., from this era. And post card makers and books often mislabel items, especially if they are unknown.

That is just my take.

All the Best

Tim R.



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Dresden


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After looking at the pictures I see no slotted arc to clamp the barrel at a set elevation, the Romanian mortar has a hand wheel with a worm feed to adjust elevation and no slotted arc to clamp the barrel.

My take on the issue

Dresden

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Tim R


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True they are not the same, but just slightly similar in design. Like I said before I posted the Romanian mortars photos (for comparison only). I have not been able to find anything else that even came close.

All the best

Tim R



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Dresden


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Tim,
This has been an interesting thread, at the least we all know more than we did before, the number of views is very high perhaps some reader will find out more.

I plan on a shooting model

Dresden

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Tim R


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You are correct, hopefully we will come to the bottom of this mysterious mortar soon.

All the best

Tim R.



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