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Post Info TOPIC: St Chamonds in Poland?
Centurion


Legend

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St Chamonds in Poland?
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The following piece of text about the St Chamond can be found on a number of web pages:


There are unsubstantiated stories about Poland using the tank against the Red Army in 1920. If true these specimens were in all probability not captured from the Soviet Army - the latter never having had any opportunity to capture them itself, as the French only used the Renault FT-17 for their expeditionary forces. Possibly they were bought from French scrap dealers.


Can anyone comment? If true (big if) this might offer a possible explanation why the phantom A7Vs  became established in peoples' minds. Consider, if you have not encountered tanks before the description ' an armoured box on top of Holt tracks with a cannon sticking out the front' could equally describe an A7V as it could a St Chamond so one man's description of a St Chamond could be interpreted by someone else as an A7V.


Anyone know if French scrap merchants were in the habit of selling off tanks sent to them as scrap? If this is the case then another nasty question emerges - when the fate of some of the A7Vs is listed as 'scrapped by the allies' could this mean  'sent to a scap dealer'? I don't think I need to spell it out further. Please feel free to solder the lid back on the worm can.



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eugene


Field Marshal

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there is considerable, early writting (30ies, 40ies)
suggesting, the French had surplus st chamonds that they wanted to get off theri hands, and that poland was one of the places they went, the other was japan, but they seemed more interested in british tanks, except for the ft-17 of course, which every oen wanted


once again, this info comes from secondary sources, primary source evidence is needed




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Tim R


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I have never heard of this before Robert, I am interested in finding out if it is true or not. I will do some digging around.


All the Best


Tim R.



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GrzeM


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Never heard about it.
G.

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eugene


Field Marshal

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I got my info, from a old (trying to find it) general article on the st.chamond, which ahd an "after the war" section, im trying to find it!

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Morgoth


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I think I have found the source of the phantom AV7V thing.

Poles built several improvised armoured cars during the Silasian Uprisings. Most of them have pretty odd shapes and one of them - Powstaniec seems to have armour shape inspired by AV7V.
It's on the first photo in this blog:
http://historiezapomniane.blogspot.com/2011/10/galeria-powstan-slaskich-cz-vii.html



-- Edited by Morgoth on Monday 26th of March 2012 08:58:18 PM

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Ironsides


Legend

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Hi Morgoth, Theres another pic here which looks like an A7V if you squint...

Wozniak Walerus vel Powstaniec

Im sure Ive seen this before though... maybe theres another thread..

the archive here  "Powstaniec"

Cheerssmile

 

 



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Albert


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I am absolutely sure there were no St. Chamonds (and Schneiders) in Polish army. Only Renault FTs.



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Tanker


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Bonjour,

The French tank Saint Chamond was never sold (or used) in Poland (or other countries . . . .).

About French tanks sold in Europe, just after the war, (Schneider and Renault FT), in French mitary documents from SHD Vincennes.

Boxes 9NN3-734 à 9NN3-736 : Cession de chars à des gouvernements étrangers. 1919-1931 (Italie - Belgique - Espagne - Suisse - Finlande - brésil, . . . )

Box 9NN3-734 - Cession de chars à divers pays en 1921 : notes, correspondance, documents comptables,décisions, procès verbaux de livraison.1919-1922

 

 

Box 9NN3-735 - Cession de chars à la Pologne : notes, correspondance, documents comptables, décisions, procès verbaux de livraison.1925-1929

Box 9NN3-736 - Cession de chars à la Yougoslavie : notes, correspondance, documents comptables, décisions, procès verbaux de livraison.1925-1931

Box 10N99 - Cession Schneider et Renault FT à l'Italie.

Box 16N2130 - Cession Renault FT aux Britanniques.

Box 16N2130 - Cession Renault FT à la Pologne.

Box 16N2130 - Cession Renault FT à la Belgique.

Box 16N2130 - Cession Renault FT aux USA.

The United States received in 1919 one Schneider's tank and one St Chamond's tank for Aberdeen museum. Tanks now in Saumur.

Good visit in Paris - Michel



-- Edited by Tanker on Monday 2nd of April 2012 07:57:42 PM

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MTorrent


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I am quite sure that Morgoth's theory is right. Those ugly Silesian machines have started the rumours.



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