Landships II

eugene · Field Marshal

tunnel diggers

Roger Todd · Legend

Here's all I have, Eugene, from 'Tanks & Weapons of World War 1' - an Austrian tunnelling machine on the Galician front (note that although the file names say '1915', I don't know why I put that on as it says nothing in the book they were scanned from!).

eugene · Field Marshal

thanks roger, thats waht I was looking for, I didnt have any Austrian tunnel equipment photos, thats for sure

thanks a lot

(the reason I was interested in this, was the book said the US took some really old stuff, big and bulky machines from the 19th century)

and the Austrian equp. is it made by them or is it German?

Tim R · Hero

Ok Roger since you posted them before me, do you know anything about this equipment??, I have looked for a long time for information on this equipment, but with no luck.

All the Best

Tim R

Roger Todd · Legend

Sadly, Eugene and Tim, there's no more information in that book other than what I've posted, and I've never seen it anywhere else! I should imagine it's a commercial tunnel boring machine, though, so if you can find any sites or books about the history of tunnel boring that'll probably be your best bet.

EDIT: Now, at a tangent from the Austrian machine, this may yield some results - The Newcomen Society:

http://www.newcomen.com/transactions/misc.htm

From their Transactions, we find:

65: 1993-94, British Tunnelling Machines in the First World War, Varley, P M

Unfortunately, to download a paper costs a tenner apiece.

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 17:28, 2005-12-30

eugene · Field Marshal

it looks farily advacned, proably made by the Krupp factory, they made some excavation machines
I dont know if the Austrians had factories that made heavy machines

Roger Todd · Legend

Skoda - they didn't just build artillery, they built all sorts (recently they even built the hub of the London Eye, as they're the only steelworks left in Europe that can handle such large forgings).

eugene · Field Marshal

they made armored cars too and now they make cars

Thomas Buecheler · Captain

Hello Eugene

Sorry, I'm a little bit late for a reply. I just returned from a short battlefield tour of the St.Mihiel salient and Verdun. It was a nice experience to march through the white landscape.

For the "tunnel diggers" topic I would like to recommend:

"Beneath Flanders Fields The Tunnellers' war 1914 - 18" written by Peter Barton, Peter Doyle and Johan Vanderwalle 2004 (Spellmount Ltd., ISBN 1-86227-237-9).

This big book (304 pages, many photograps - b/w and colour - , plans and drawings) does not only contain informations about the Ypres salient in WW I, it shows the evolution of military mining (from medieval to WW I) and explains how the tunnellers turned their atteintion to the construction of deep dugouts after Messines. The authors tell the story of practice mining before and during the Great War and have a look at the geology, too. Both sides are shown, the German Pioniere and Mineure and the allieds.

There are two pictures showing a Whitaker tunnelling machine at work in the Folkstone cliffs in 1923. This same machine had been used beneath the trenches of the Western Front. The other photograph shows a German machine. There's a drawing of a Clay Cutting Machine capable of coping with Flanders clay. This model was never used in action.

The British used a Stanley Heading Machine without success. This machine had to be abandoned and still lies 36m beneath the Messines Ridge!

Perhaps this helps a little.

Kind regards

Thomas B�cheler

Roger Todd · Legend

Thomas, that sounds utterly fascinating, thanks (I'm sure Eugene will be chipping in later)! I may even get a copy myself as it's quite cheap from Amazon.

eugene · Field Marshal

Thomas,
the book looks fab. ill definatly pick it up, so that gives some back ground into British and German side of tunneling, roger provided some austrian stuff, any one have french tunneling info?

Centurion · Legend

Two Stanley Heading Machines were used in the early stages (Feb/March 1916) of the great mining operation leading up to the Batttle of Messines ridge in . One was used by 250 company RE and the other by a Canadian engineer unit. They were made in Nuneaton and could bore a six foot diameter tunnel. Great effort was made to carry the machine down the shaft of 250 company's mine and assemble it in the tunnel so far dug by hand.At first all went well but the machines progress was halted by the swelling Belgian clay that had to be dug away from its tracks by hand. It also showed an tendency to dive and one officer was quoted as saying "this machine showed a complete disinclination to proceed towards Germany, but prefered to head to Australia by the most direct route". It ws abandoned and remains to this day somewhere 80 feet below the Belgian ground/ The Canadian machine was no more successful. In the end the British and Canadian tunnels were dug by hand. A good account of this can be found in 'War 1914-18 Undergrounfd' by Alexander Barrie. This is an excellent book and covers the British and German mining and countermining operations mainly in 1915 and 1916. Unfortunately there are no photographs but be book is full of eye witness accounts and survivor's stories as well as covering the technical stuff well. My copy was published in 1962 and I don't know if its available today - worth picking up a copy.