Landships II

Roger Todd · Legend

Killen Strait with Turret

Centurion · Legend

Furthermore the markings mirror those on one of Locker Lampsons Lanchester flying fish.

I tried taking a drawing I made of the Lanchester body and turret and superimposing it on one of a Killen Strait. The result is as follows:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1114252/killenturret.jpg

of course all this does is prove that it was possible not that it was in fact. I know that Lanchesters had to be abandoned in Russia - its always possible that one or more were slavaged and recycled.

Roger Todd · Legend

Stupidly, I can't remember whether the drawing in Sueter's book had those markings or not, but I'm having another look at it tomorrow so I'll make a note then. There are also many dozens of photos in the Stern archives of various armoured cars, Bullock Creeping Grips, Lincoln Machine No 1, Little Willie, Holts, Killen Straits, Pedrails, you name it, if it's experimental, it's there, so I'll go through those some time too (though I've loooked at some and don't recall seeing a turreted Killen Strait).

The impression Sueter gives is that the sole reason he had the turret fitted was so he could say that he'd produced the first complete armed and armoured tracklayer, not for any really serious reason as it was apparent that the Killen Strait wouldn't do.

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 16:55, 2006-01-05

Drader · Lieutenant

The last word of the Russian caption is 'Lanchester', the picture is probably a composite.

Stoyan · Sergeant

Drader wrote:

The last word of the Russian caption is 'Lanchester', the picture is probably a composite.

The comment says:
Three-catarpillars " Killen Strait " with armoured the case from armored car "Austin" and turret from "Lanchester"

Centurion · Legend

I think someone hadd access to this picture

already elsewhere on this web site, of a Lanchester with Locker Lampson in Russia but confused 5 C 1 with 5 0 1. Locker Lampsons squadron did have at least one Austin on strength at one point which is possibly where the confusing caption arose

Originally the picture at the start of the thread came with details of an obscure Russian book that claimed that a Russian unit operating near Kalin had converted a number of Kilen Straits. I can't remember if this first surfaced on this site or another. I tried to run this one down but got nowhere. I had hoped that one of the members of this forum with better Rusian contacts than me (possibly Tim). might have surfaced something.

Stoyan · Sergeant

This picture Lanchester-Killen Strait, rather ancient.
I saw it in the Russian encyclopedia on tanks of 1946 of the edition.
I think that the original has been published in Russian military magazine " Bronevoe dielo " in 20th years.
Armored cases Lanchester have been established on tractors in Petrograd.

This picture that is at the start of the thread - taken from book Semyon Fedoseev. Mister Fedoseyev about this AC can tell nothing. In its book there is no mention about Killen Strait. Even the comment is executed with a mistake.

Centurion · Legend

Stoyan wrote:

This picture Lanchester-Killen Strait, rather ancient. I saw it in the Russian encyclopedia on tanks of 1946 of the edition. I think that the original has been published in Russian military magazine " Bronevoe dielo " in 20th years. Armored cases Lanchester have been established on tractors in Petrograd. This picture that is at the start of the thread - taken from book Semyon Fedoseev. Mister Fedoseyev about this AC can tell nothing. In its book there is no mention about Killen Strait. Even the comment is executed with a mistake.

Not the book I am refering to, see following extract from a posting now buried some 6 pages down

I have in an odd little Russian book (type written with a very poor binding looking sort of amateurish) called �The Dawn of Armor: 1901-1921" by Georgii Narochnitskaya which covers lots of strange vehicles like the Fowler land locomotive. The book has very few photos (nothing new that is not of very bad quality) and a few decent drawings. I started to pay to have it translated a few years ago but ran out of money so I can�t give a lot of details.

Basically, it has a chapter of written memoirs by a Russian Colonel that are mixed with summaries/comments by the author (because of they share the same the officer seems to be an ancestor of the author) who was charged with getting four unarmored Killen-Strait tractors ready for combat starting in early 1917. The author affirms the tractors did have a turrets taken from Lancasters armored cars changed to use captured Schwarzlose M7/12 MGs but apparently the armor itself was shipped to his unit based slightly to the North of Riga from the Pulitov Works. One unit was left with an open top and arrangements were made to equip it with a Rosenberg m/15 but for some reason it was instead changed to use the 37mm Infanteriegesch�tz M.15. It seems that while two units had seen action a couple of weeks prior to Russia withdrawing from the war the cannon equipped unit had mechanical problems and parts shortages that prevented it from being used during the First World War while one of MG equipped units broke down to often to see combat till the civil war.

The author further reports that two of the MG equipped Killen-Strait armored tractors were captured by the Germans at the end of hostilities but only one was in working order. Apparently,
conflicting reports exist as to what the Germans did with them as some of the author�s sources indicate it was used on Western front and destroyed while others say that it was never used in combat. Apparently, the second unit the Germans had was repaired but stayed in Russia and somehow wound up in the Hands of the Finns although no knows what happened to it. Apparently, the last MG equipped and one mounting the cannon were used by the Soviets during the civil war in the Ukraine but no seems to know what happened to them.

Stoyan · Sergeant

Centurion,
About it I know. Here only the book what that to a floor-mythical.

BUT in Russian archives by the author of the book "AC's Russian army 1906-1917" any certificates to that it is not found so Killen-Strait for it does not exist:))).

As by the way and "Japanese AC's in Vladivostok". Though the author perfectly knows about them and has photos.

Now he prepares for the second part - AC's Civil war
And I doubt as there Killen-Strait will be.

Personally me the source of the first publication of it Lanchester-Killen Strait interests

Centurion · Legend

Stoyan wrote:

Centurion, About it I know. Here only the book what that to a floor-mythical. BUT in Russian archives by the author of the book "AC's Russian army 1906-1917" any certificates to that it is not found so Killen-Strait for it does not exist:))). As by the way and "Japanese AC's in Vladivostok". Though the author perfectly knows about them and has photos. Now he prepares for the second part - AC's Civil war And I doubt as there Killen-Strait will be. Personally me the source of the first publication of it Lanchester-Killen Strait interests

Are you saying that the book is mythical (it does not exist) or the information in it is mythical (is wrong)?
Obscurata, you refered to the book in your posting - any comments?

Given that the vehicle was said to be to late for WW1 I wouldn't expect it to be listed as a Rusian army vehicle.

Stoyan · Sergeant

Are you saying that the book is mythical (it does not exist) or the information in it is mythical (is wrong)? Obscurata, you refered to the book in your posting - any comments?

I speak about the book.

Given that the vehicle was said to be to late for WW1 I wouldn't expect it to be listed as a Rusian army vehicle.

Whose it should be?