Landships II

eugene · Field Marshal

interesting steam vehicles

Roger Todd · Legend

Interesting stuff Eugene!

The top left vehicle looks like a bog-standard three-wheel steam tractor/'car', and was probably no more or less practicable than any other.

The two strange wheel things on the right I have never seen! Fascinating, though they look excessively complex, and thus doomed to failure in anything approaching everyday conditions (never mind the everyday battlefield!).

The helmet-like vehicle is James Cowan's proposal from 1855 to armour plate a Burrell-Boydell tractor for the Crimea. Apparently he showed the proposal to Lord Palmerston who said it was 'barbaric'. It was also examined, it would seem, by the Royal Engineers. This is one of those schemes that is often claimed as an example of military shortsightedness - however, in reality I rather suspect that the engineers would have pooh-poohed it as utter impracticable for very sound reasons. A conventional tractor of the time, even with the Boydell footed wheels, wouldn't have taken the weight. And where were the gunners supposed to go? Squeeze themselves between the breech ends of their muzzle-loading cannon and a hot boiler? And how were they to load said muzzle-loaders? Still, it would make a great model (I've attached a drawing I did of Cowan's machine many years ago, I was going to make a model, but guess what?).

That French caterpillar steamer is simply ludicrous! I doubt very much that it was a 'project', any more than the giant Gyro Cruiser on another thread was, it's simply wishful thinking.

Centurion · Legend

The 1st vehicle is a British Thomson Road Steamer some of which were sold to Turkey. They were used to pull road trains The same engine was used to power the (Indian) Government steam train designed by Lt R E Crompton in Rawlpindi in 1870. A speed of up to 25 mph could be achieved on a well made road but this was considered to be exceedingly reckless and normal operating practice was about 9 mph. The same powerplant but with a horizontal boiler wa sold to Russia and Greece.

I've seen the two wheels somewhere before. My antique thermomic valve, mercury delay powered memory suggests that they are antecedents of the Diplock wheel - I'll crank up the Babbage machine and investigate.

Roger Todd · Legend

Thanks for that Robert. Now I know it's a Thomson steamer, I've been able to find out more, such as it being the first road vehicle to have rubber tyres (albeit solid ones).

There's a nice photo of another Thomson steamer here:

Those two wheels, especially the top one, do have something of the Diplock about them. If you can find out more that'd be great.

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:

Thanks for that Robert. Now I know it's a Thomson steamer, I've been able to find out more, such as it being the first road vehicle to have rubber tyres (albeit solid ones).

Which in the heat of India tended to stick to the road surface

Centurion · Legend

The first of these 'funny' wheels is a version of a design by a Mr A Dunlop (not the rubber man). It follows some of the same principles of the Diplock design (but predates it). It appears to have also been called a pedrail. It seems that Dunlop tried shortening the arms (so as to have only two feet per arm). It almost looks as if Diplock refined the design but I can find no proof of this.

Centurion · Legend

Short armed version of Dunlop wheel.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1114252/dunlopwheel.JPG

Roger Todd · Legend

Fascinating stuff! Somehow, I'm not surprised about the rubber tyres of the Thomson Steamer sticking to Indian roads.

The Dunlop wheel really is odd, although I'm sceptical about it directly influencing Diplock's design, as mechanically they seem quite different:

The Diplock wheel's feet are independently mounted, and appear to flatten out their run along the lower part of the wheel by sliding along that hinged cam-type thing inside.

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:

The Dunlop wheel really is odd, although I'm sceptical about it directly influencing Diplock's design, as mechanically they seem quite different:

Maybe I'm just a bit suspicious about both designs being refered to as pedrails.

Incidently when digging around I found this sugestion frm an American - Justice Johnson. in the 1890s - perhaps he had a mole in his court.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1114252/justicetrack.jpg

Roger Todd · Legend

Diplock may have nicked the name (Dunlop's came first I'm assuming), I'll grant you that.

Interesting concept of Johnson's, bendable tracks for steering. I see what you mean by having a mole (or, rather, having de mole...). Probably an example of parallel development.

chenab · Corporal

Centurion wrote:
Roger Todd wrote:
Thanks for that Robert. Now I know it's a Thomson steamer, I've been able to find out more, such as it being the first road vehicle to have rubber tyres (albeit solid ones).
Which in the heat of India tended to stick to the road surface

�Sorry - just found this comment. I've read through most of the original documents about these machines in India and I don't recall that being mentioned as a problem at all at the time. Maybe it's one of those stories that has grown up later.

Tony