Landships II

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Unidentified guns in Sofia.


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
RE: Unidentified guns in Sofia.
Permalink   


In Belgrade Military museum is ex Romanian 10.5 cm Feldhaubitze M.12. Howitzer captured Bulgarian probably in 1916 and in september or october 1918 Serbian army captured howitzer by Bulgarians (I think only 4 howitzer 10.5 cm M.12).

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks to ain92ru pointing to an old thread:
http://landships.activeboard.com/t28083967/help-needed-whos-that-beautyfull-sexy-lady-on-the-pictures-r/

We know this gun is a 105 mm Obusier GP:

13162429625_779ea842d3_c.jpg

Now, what about this? The Museum's label says it's a 105 mm Krupp. It's not the same as the 1916 export models, it has something in common with the Belgian guy above, but maybe it's just a common German heritage...

13162632494_c858f9e5de_c.jpg

Then we have this one:

13172247754_ef8eac1c87_c.jpg

A view from behind, there is a "Rh.M.F" marking. Is it a 10.5 cm Rheinmetall?

13172173383_4bb9d83bec_c.jpg

Thanks in advance for the help

Massimo



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Another gun without an identification:

13282199974_74ede88248_c.jpg



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks to a fellow Flickr member I know this is a Schneider-Canet piece, most likely a Serbian one. Can anybody add more?

13282119593_0d8ed55e24_c.jpg

13282079973_a5cb758c85_c.jpg

13282031473_e380c5e922_c.jpg



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Digging my pictures from Bucharest, I've fund this gun, labelled as "152 mm Schneider-Canet mod 1897":

5148122612_e0b91c1834_z.jpg



__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
Permalink   

Serbian 12 cm howitzer M 97 Schneider Kanet. In Serbian army, after 1907, caliber BL guns and howitzers was in cm but caliber QF guns and howitzer was in mm.



-- Edited by nebojsa djokic on Friday 21st of March 2014 03:45:07 PM

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks for the info!

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

I have the feeling the one in Sofia is a 120 mm while the one in Bucharest is a 152 mm.
Among other things the gun in Sofia has very sophisticated markings, while the one in Bucharest has nothing.

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

What about this multi-barrel thingy? Nordfelt?

13324068743_30c10ea7b5_c.jpg



__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

Yes - it's a 5-barrel 0.45inch Nordenfelt gun - more at:http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/

The 0.45" gun was designed for Army use - the Naval anti-torpedo boat gun calibre was about 1".

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

By the way, in Sofia there is also this multi-barrel baby on display. So far I identified it as a 10,66 mm Nobel machine gun:

11813375203_336454ef1f_c.jpg



__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

Looks like a Gatling gun to me - but I don't know much about this type of gun - I know a bit about Nordenfelts because there are about 5 of them in Queensland.

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

It has Gatling's influence:
www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Nobel%20ten%20barrels%20MG.htm

Massimo

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

This one looks like a naval gun to me:

13345437064_7d49fcd97d_c.jpg



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Maybe there is a chance to properly identify this wreck.

The markings are written in Cyrillic and say it's a Schneider. Caliber should be around 105 mm:

13345463933_b4d548a855_c.jpg

13345406843_d528264d41_c.jpg

13345350823_92178336ec_c.jpg



-- Edited by Massimo Foti on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 07:19:38 AM

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

Not quite - I think it's a 75mm Schneider PD07 sold to Serbia around 1910-12.

The markings are in Serbo-Croat.

I've attached the barrel markings from a PD07A - this one was from an order intercepted by the Ottomans.

There should be the Serbian cipher on the barrel just in front of the markings.

The markings on the barrel of the Sofia gun translate as:

=================

Field Gun M.1907

No. 85

Weight 340 (kg)

=================

Edit: Found an image of the Serbian cipher - I think there's a motto under the cipher as well

Regards,

Charlie



-- Edited by CharlieC on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 12:44:11 PM

Attachments
__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

The gun behind is a 105 mm, that's why I estimate it along the same caliber

Massimo

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
Permalink   

Gun is Serbian 75 mm M07 Schneider Canet but original designation is PD6. PD7 was Greek gun. In Iraq, Americans found something newer model 75 mm M07A or PD6bis. The main difference is in the sight. Greek gun is very similar almost identical.



-- Edited by nebojsa djokic on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 03:55:03 PM

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

So far I assumed this was the Serbian 75 mm Schneider-Canet (pictures from Sofia):

11942001473_2f48b348c8_c.jpg

11942209794_f4b7443f78_c.jpg

Again, to me it seems the wreck has a larger caliber, but maybe it's just a different version.

Thanks for all the help!

Massimo



__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
Permalink   

This is Bulgarian QF field gun 75 mm M04 Schneider Canet or original PR1 (in other surces PR2). In French original documents write only Schneider PR.

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks for the clarifications. Now, looking at the pictures, you still feel the wrecked gun is 75 mm? Do we have other pictures of the Serbian, 1907 model?

Massimo

__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

Yes - tryhttp://landships.activeboard.com/t17089852/schneider-canet/forum.spark?forumID=63528&p=3&topicID=15814995

This gun is an M1907A taken from a Serbian order by the Ottomans in 1912. The 52 guns seized used the same ammunition

as the 75mm Krupp gun, they served with Ottoman divisions throughout WW1.

Another one at:http://www.ammsbrisbane.com/home.html?L0=7&L1=1&L2=1

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Okay, you convinced me now
Thanks!

Massimo

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Time for another question smile

I am pretty sure this one is a Russian 107 mm 1910:

13374294403_926376d3cf_c.jpg

But what about the one below? Is it an Italian 105/28 Ansaldo-Schneider 1913? Or one of the few used by the French Army in WW I?

Could even be it arrived in Bulgaria during WW II:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_105_mle_1913_Schneider

13374328243_954dfa0472_c.jpg

13374383293_b0b5578f67_c.jpg



__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

There's very little visual difference between a Russian 42-line Mod.1910 and a Canon de 105mm L Mle 1913 - the only way to be sure is from the breech markings.

The wrap around gun shield is a post-WW1 modification to the 105mm gun.

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

CharlieC wrote:

The wrap around gun shield is a post-WW1 modification to the 105mm gun.


The Italian guns (build under license by Ansaldo) had that kind of shield in WW I already.

Was that shield ever used by the Russians or only by French?

Thanks

Massimo



__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

Not in WW1 - or rather - I've only seen images of WW1 Russian 107mm and French 105mm with flat shields.

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Sorry, I am afraid I didn't understood your previous post. When you mention "wrap around gun shield", you were referring to the shield used by the first gun, the somewhat flat shield?
The Italian guns had the "curved" shield from the very beginning in WW I, and they had it in WW II as well.

Massimo



__________________


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2127
Date:
Permalink   

Sorry - I slipped into Australian - I meant the curved shield.

Regards,

Charlie



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Do you think it's safe to say that if the gun has a curved shield it's a 105 mm rather than a 107 mm?
I have this feeling based on my observation of surviving guns, but I have nothing that prove/document this...

Massimo

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

This is a 150 mm Schneider-Canet for sure, it has markings written in Cyrillic. But I am not sure about the exact model or nationality:

13469968524_66a47d5dd4_z_d.jpg

13469896814_f1f639f0ed_z_d.jpg

13469563833_a67ec3b604_z_d.jpg

13469394155_f8d259cf19_z_d.jpg

13469413643_f4c15ee1ac_z_d.jpg



__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Seems like Bulgarianartillery.it has the answer:
www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Schneider-Canet%20150mm%201897-05_Hb.htm

__________________


Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 59
Date:
Permalink   

Bulgarian howitzer 15 cm Schneider Canet M 1897/05.

__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

I think I am done uploading pictures from Sofia. The whole set of 350+ shots is visible here:
www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/sets/72157636746382615/

I still have a few unidentified pieces, I grouped them at the bottom of the page.
Once again I thank you all for the help.

If anybody would like to see additional pictures of a specific subject, just let me know, the shots posted on Flickr are just a fraction of what I have in my archive.

__________________


Private

Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date:
Permalink   

Hello Massimo

Congratulations on the superb photo galleries from the Bucharest, Sophia and Belgrade museums.

 

Your "Unidentified Krupp long gun" here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/11517573083/in/set-72157636746382615/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/11517524424/in/set-72157636746382615/

is a Krupp 105 mm model 1891 siege gun.

You photographed it in Bucharest as well, and it is properly identified there:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/5141765165/in/set-72157624595717860

 

They could be of Romanian origin. During the 1916 opening campaign some of these guns were deployed in the Tutrakan and Silistra bridgeheads.

That's where the Bulgarian army most likely captured them, I see there's two in their museum.

 

They could also have been captured from the Greeks - they also had them - see photo 1 here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=188634

 

The "Unidentified Krupp wreck" here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/12032874976/in/set-72157636746382615/

and the three photos folowing is a Krupp 125mm model 1880 siege gun.

It was in widespread use in Holland until WW2, see photo here:

http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.php?page=photo&pid=8852

It was also used by the Greeks, see photos 2 and 3 here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=188634

 

In Romania there are two guns of this type guarding a WW1 memorial in Drobeta-Turnu Severin, see photos attached below, taken by me this summer.

They have serials 21 and 23, I see the one you photographed in Sophia has serial 40.

There'a also a barrel in the Bucharest museum, see the last photo here:

http://acc31.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/muzeul-militar/

It's the one in the background, in brown-reddish primer.

I have no idea how they ended up here, to the best of my knowledge they were not in Romanians service, so we probably captured them from Bulgaria in 1918.

 



Attachments
__________________


Colonel

Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate the info. Once again it demonstrate how powerful the collective knowledge of a community of enthusiasts can be

One of these days I plan to go back to Bucharest and take more pictures. During my first visit I was surprised to find so many artillery pieces and was unable to spend enough time.
Next year I plan to visit Budapest, but I haven't seen that many pictures from the Museum over there, so I don't know what to expect.



__________________


Private

Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date:
Permalink   

Glad I could help.

When you visit the Bucharest museum, please look around and see if you can find this piece:
www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/memoire_fr%20Romania&NUMBER=2&GRP=12&REQ=%28%28Romania%29%20%3aAUTP%20%29&USRNAME=nobody&USRPWD=4%24%2534P&SPEC=3&SYN=1&IMLY=&MAX1=1&MAX2=1&MAX3=50&DOM=Tous
It's a Gruson 120mm howitzer model 1888.
Initially installed in armored cupolas of the Bucharest forts ring, in 1916 it was removed and installed on locally made carriages.
It's the only major Romanian arty piece from WW1 of which I haven't seen photos from the Museum.
Wonder if they have it at all.



-- Edited by Vic2014 on Friday 19th of September 2014 09:27:11 AM



-- Edited by Vic2014 on Friday 19th of September 2014 09:28:27 AM

Attachments
__________________
«First  <  1 2 | Page of 2  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard