Landships II

IrishGunner · Lieutenant

Another heavy Krupp gun to identify

Roger Todd · Legend

I first saw that photo (tiny!) in Curt Johnson's Artillery - he didn't say what gun it was!

However, a quick google reveals that it appears to have been reproduced as a postcard, and is dated 1914:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/drakegoodman/7893044724/in/set-72157625007331323

TECHNISCHES BILDWERK. Herausgeber: Dr. S. von Jezewski. Abt.: I. Eisenbahnwesen. - Nr. 5. Kruppscher Gesch�tztransportwagen. Eigengewicht 53100 kg. Tragf�higkeit 100,000 kg. Spurweite 1435 mm. Photogr. Kartenverlag Albert Schmidt, Jena 1914.

The above text is on the reverse of the postcard:

http://www.muenzauktion.com/futter/item_print.php5?lang=en&id=761&curr=EUR

No direct help, sorry, but someone may be able to use the date or the technical information concerning the load capacity of the rail wagon to deduce something or other.

EDIT: Here's a bit more info:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8623220@N02/6399906375

Krupp gun on R.R. car

[1914]

1 negative : glass ; 5 x 7 in. or smaller.

Notes:
Title from data provided by the Bain News Service on the negative. Date from similar image published in Illustrated War News, October 21 1914.
Photograph shows a Krupp gun on a railroad car during World War I. (Source: Flickr Commons project, 2011)
Forms part of: George Grantham Bain Collection (Library of Congress).

For what it's worth, my guess is that it's a battleship gun of at least 28 cm calibre. But that's only a guess.

-- Edited by Roger Todd on Wednesday 15th of January 2014 12:59:02 AM

IrishGunner · Lieutenant

Roger, your links and info are quite useful.

The same image in the ILLUSTRATED WAR NEWS No:11 21/10/1914 from your last link shows a larger caption. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to enlarge the image enough to be able to read the long description. A Google search of ILLUSTRATED WAR NEWS turned up full copies of issues Numbers 15 and 21 on the free Gutenberg Project, but not issue Number 11.

It got me to thinking because I have a copy of the 1914 New York Times pictorial. And the image appears in the Thursday, Nov. 5 1914 edition, with the simple caption "Immense Krupp Gun Leaving the Works at Essen on One of the Great Trucks Specifically Built to Transport these Heavy Weapons" Unfortunately, no details about the gun itself.

IrishGunner · Lieutenant

I just found this Google ebook;�

�

Organ f�r die Fortschritte des Eisenbahnwesens, Volumes 47-48

�

It has a passage about the rail car and it's use to transport Krupp guns in Germany to the shipyard for onward movement to the United States and the exhibition of Krupp guns in Chicago in 1893.� It's in German; mentions Krupp guns from 3,7cm to 42cm being sent.� It also mentions a 24cm K�sten-Kanone.� Images of the passage in three parts attached.

Roger's guess of a 28cm naval gun ... and the possibility of a 24cm K�sten-Kanone... are probably the best bets.

-- Edited by IrishGunner on Saturday 18th of January 2014 05:35:28 AM

Ironsides · Legend

No need to Guess, For Krupp guns in Chicago there is a document:

l'Exposition de Chicago de 1893 �Krupp

Actually several.... This issue of��Revue d'artillerie also has info:

Revue d'artillerie 1894�

Revue technique de l'Exposition universelle de Chicago de 1893�Vol 5 deals with the Guns.

�

Cheers wink

�

-- Edited by Ironsides on Saturday 18th of January 2014 10:35:06 AM

Luger · Corporal

Hello, Artillery-Cracks!

�

I do think, I could solve the problem of the identy:

�

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:28_cm_gun_at_Oscarsborg_Fortress.jpg

�

The gun is 28cm SK L/40 like the one in the above mentioned picture.

�

Best regards,

�

Luger

�

IrishGunner · Lieutenant

Luger, thanks for the link.� I saw the Oscarsborg gun when I was searching for possible solutions.� And I agree the tube itself is similar.� The one on the train seems to have a different mount, however.� For sure, I'd say 28cm, but which model remains in question I think.

-- Edited by IrishGunner on Friday 24th of January 2014 07:23:53 PM

IrishGunner · Lieutenant

Ironsides, thank you very much for the Chicago documents! Very interesting read (even with my poor French)!

Roger Todd · Legend

IrishGunner wrote:
Luger, thanks for the link.� I saw the Oscarsborg gun when I was searching for possible solutions.� And I agree the tube itself is similar.� The one on the train seems to have a different mount, however.� For sure, I'd say 28cm, but which model remains in question I think.

You're right, the mount is very different. The Oscarsborg gun barrels have trunnions fixed directly to them and are mounted on inclined slide carriages. The gun on the Krupp wagon is in a later style cradle/slide. I think the cradle itself is a proof mounting as the (presumably hydraulic and/or pneumatic) recoil cylinder assembly looks far more bulky and complex than operational cradle recoil assemblies. It's probably adjustable for different length gun barrels. The more I look at them, the more I suspect the Krupp wagon gun is a later model than the Oscarsborg guns.

IrishGunner · Lieutenant

Roger Todd wrote:
You're right, the mount is very different. The Oscarsborg gun barrels have trunnions fixed directly to them and are mounted on inclined slide carriages. The gun on the Krupp wagon is in a later style cradle/slide. I think the cradle itself is a proof mounting as the (presumably hydraulic and/or pneumatic) recoil cylinder assembly looks far more bulky and complex than operational cradle recoil assemblies. It's probably adjustable for different length gun barrels. The more I look at them, the more I suspect the Krupp wagon gun is a later model than the Oscarsborg guns.

�

Roger, thank you for your comments.� Very informative.� I hadn't thought of the possibility of a proof mounting.� My first thought was it was a mount for a ship turret.