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Post Info TOPIC: Holt artillery tractor


Corporal

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Holt artillery tractor
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Having had the opportunity to photo and measure an example.....a model is nearing completion....it forms the basis of a master pattern to be cast in resin.....at the moment we are trying to find any info on markings other than the standard W D, some had a number (census number) on a couple of areas.

One other query, is there any records of them being used by the US army in France.....they were of US manufacture but so far cannot find any info of their use other than the Western Front and Mesopotamia.

 

I can be contacted at georgemoore66@hotmail.co.uk.

Thanks for any help.

 

George

 

 



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Brigadier

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The US Army used them in France. Some of these were lent by the WD and had both US and WD markings. Also used in Egypt, Palestine and Mesopotamia. Also used by the Germans and Austrians. US Army had them on the Mexican border.

Which Holt have you examined? There are two Holt 75's in the UK that I know about.

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Legend

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That model looks fantastic! Good luck producing it as a kit, quality like that deserves to sell like hot cakes.

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Hero

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It's beautimus!!   What scale, please?



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Corporal

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Thanks for the comments......the example I had access to was owned by a Mr Rackham......he has an amazing collection of tractors.....the Holt is the 75, I understand it was in use in Britain at the docks.....Southampton or Tilbury......for loading / unloading...it did not go to France.

I think it is pretty original, some parts needed replacing......at 2 gallons/mile and the damage it does to the road, it dosen't go out much....they told me that after about an hour, it has to stop to refill the oilers.

There seems to be at least two types, depends on the water tank.....I think early ones had a header tank at the top rear of the radiator.....others have a large oval water tank mounted alomgside the engine. This seems to determine the position of the steering column.....running inside or outside the chassis.

The kit will be released by Resicast as a resin kit...resin is less popular than plastic, but we try and specialise in the more "unusual" subjects......along with the tractor we plan the 8" howitzer and limber as a towed load......a great combo.

We are looking for some alternative markings......I have three "census" numbers so far. No other markings other than the standard WD seem to be used. Any info on those built under licence would be of help !!

Thanks, as it progresses I will post more photos....best if I put them in the modelling section ??

George.

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Corporal

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OOPS.......scale is 1/35th.
Just saw the last entry.

G,

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Legend

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You need a real guru on Holt tractors to sort out who bought what and when.

But, when I was researching the Holt SPGs I did some study on the Holt tractors since the early SPGs were based on the tractors.

Before the US entered the war in 1917 the US Army had purchased small numbers of 15 and 20-ton (towing capacity) tractors for artillery towing trials.

The Holt 75s (equivalent to the US Army 15-ton tractor) seem to have been purchases by Allied Purchasing Commission directly from Holt. Both the French

and British Armies used the Holt tractors extensively from about 1915.

Once the US entered the war a large number of Holt tractors were ordered in a number of sizes - 2.5, 5, 10, 15 and 20-ton tractors. By the Armistice

1543 5-ton, 1421 10-ton and 267 15-ton(Holt 75) tractors had been accepted. I don't know how many 15-ton tractors made it to France but significant

numbers of 5 and 10-ton tractors were used in France.

Regards,

Charlie 



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Corporal

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Hi and thanks for that.....I guess you refer to IPMS SIG ?? was not aware of one for the Holt.

A lot of interesting stuff here, thanks. Tim Gosling's book on WW1 Transport gives numbers supplied to Britain.
The area of interest is the "75"......the 120 was a six cylinder, similar design??

Of all the photo's I have seen, there are three with census - serial numbers 305700, 305701, 305799 so this may indicate a batch supplied.....however there is no prefix letter.

I am interested in alternative marking those in US service may have carried.

George.

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Legend

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No - I was indicating that my knowledge of the Holt artillery tractors was incidental to other research. The IPMS SIGs may have someone who really does know

about the Holt tractors.

Yes - the Holt 120 (20-ton) was the 6 cylinder version. I think, but I may be wrong, that the designations Holt 75 and Holt 120 were Holt's commercial designations.

The US Army and the Dept of Munitions, who organised production, always referred to the Holt tractors by their towing capacity, i.e. 15 and 20-ton.

I'll have a dig in the images I've got of the US Army tractors for markings but I don't recall the markings were obvious or prominent.

Regards,

Charlie



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Hero

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Holt 75s "beute" during Michael Offensive.



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Corporal

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Great, if you have a better copy of the rear view, can you make out the serial number.....it looks like 428 (or 9) 01.....now you have messed me up, the side on view shows seperate exhaust pipes on the cylinders.....could this have been a UK built, using a Perkins engine ???????

From the example I saw, I would say a few modifications were made during service life, possibly the torn up terrain put extra strain on the chassis, there seems to be tie bars and brackets underneath that could have been added later.

The more I see the less I know !!!!!!!!

Thanks for these.

George.



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Hero

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My miscaption, George, sorry.  Those are Holt 120s.   The 75 had a single exhaust.  As information,  The USA supplied 243 of these to Britain.  The Holt 75 arrived in numbers exceding 700.   As you may know, it became the principle prime mover for the 60 Pdr after traction wheels and a redesigned trail hitch were installed on the gun.



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BSM


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Interesting project. Here is a Unit Sign you could use if you are looking for a European application.

It is the Army Sign for the 77th SBAC which was painted on Unit Holts. Regards.... Rod



-- Edited by BSM on Friday 4th of April 2014 11:05:41 AM

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Corporal

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I should have taken a closer look myself.

 

Tim Gosling's book quotes 1362 Holt 75 supplied to britain. A trawl through the IWM photo archives show quite a few examples especially if you look for the different calibre guns as well. Also a few film sequences, most of which demonstrate the front roller being totally useless for steering.

Most heavy/large calibre guns were towed, including the 9.2" with all the seperate loads.

 

George.

 

 



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Corporal

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Meant to include these, they show the wheel we are having done at shapeways prototyping, it will have etched brass spokes as they are easier to bend and fit, the 60pdr MkI can be modelled in the firing or towing mode, the 8" howitzer is the MkII, the combo of tractor/limber/gun should be a great combo......just hope it sells.

All 1/35th scale

 

???? How can I make them smaller ????

8in Howitzer wheel complete rear.jpgP1010002.JPGP1010007.JPGP1010008.JPG



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Corporal

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That is great, any type of info like this is of immense use.

I am not up to date with usage, what do the initials stand for.....and please excuse my ignorance.

I thought that Holts were "manned" by the Army Service Corps, there were "Caterpillar Sections"  the large calibre guns were mostly attached to RGA am I totally wrong on these points......(probably)

 

George



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