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Post Info TOPIC: Tamiya Mk IV - wip


Lieutenant-Colonel

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Tamiya Mk IV - wip
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Some picture from my new model. I will appreciate your comments.

She will be Black Arrow II

Ok, last wheel is not the correct size but I think it will work

Some work to dapt the plastic idler wheel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ciao

Pierantonio



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Hero

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Very nice work you are doing there, did you get the new figures as well ?
Paul

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Hero

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Excellent! Can you please describe more the modifications you're making? I see that you obliterated two little doors on the rear roof panel. Why is that? Does the Tamiya kit bring Lewis guns or otehr type of MGs? TIA!

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Idler wheel: inside the box you will find both drive and idler wheel. As drive wheel I will use the metal one but on the front I will put the plastic one. To adapt it enlarge the hole from 3 mm to 4 mm then the metal adapter will work fine.
The upper inside part of rear horn laks of any datails so I rebuilt rivets and mudscraper.
I rebuilt some parts in the rear due the heavy thickness of Tamiya parts.
Some parts are pure invention as side support on gas tank.
Sponson are really well moulded but they lack of any detail on the inside area near the gun. Looking at sponson picture it seems armour makes a small lips so I glued a 0.5x0.5 plastic strip to riproduce it.
The Bovington MkIV has the hatches on the upper hull but no WWI tank have them. Nobody know when and why Bovington tank had them.
Tamiya model has three Lewis guns but I will chenge them with some others from Takom model I think they are better done.
Tamiya has another problem: guns and their ball mount are moulded togheter so the ball lacks of the two small holes on the upper and bottom area. Now I am casting a resin copy ot these parts again from Takom model.
By the way today I had the Takom Female Landship and I put her near her Tamiya sister. They seems to have identical dimension. Also tracks links' lenght and width are the same.
Bye
Pierantonio

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Hero

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Pierantonio, It's a great job you made. I didn't knew that those doors weren't present only in the Bovington tank, and I was wondering if I should add them to my 1:72 kit. As for the rear armour plates (which also aren't depicted on the Emhar kit) have you taken this detail from some sets of plans, or drew them using the own tanks parts for measurements?
Tante Grazie!

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d_fernetti wrote:

Pierantonio, It's a great job you made. I didn't knew that those doors weren't present only in the Bovington tank, and I was wondering if I should add them to my 1:72 kit. As for the rear armour plates (which also aren't depicted on the Emhar kit) have you taken this detail from some sets of plans, or drew them using the own tanks parts for measurements?
Tante Grazie!


I drew them from the kit part but there is a mistake on the bottom because in the real tank there was no hole for the petrol tank door hinges. After taking picture I corrected also holes on the right side for escape door hinges because I cut them with an irregular shape.

I add also the small gole just near the door for the light cable and I added the rear light and its support and the exhaust support on the left side.

Usually I follow these steps to reproduce thin parts:

1) draw parts with a CAD program

2) print them on paper with your office or home printer.

3) cut part's shape and glue it on palstic sheet with a stick glue

4) cut and drill parts following printed line and then soak them on tap water to remove paper

Here you can find a DXF file (Autocad 2000 DXF standard) with some parts I made.

It's easy to open, modify as you like and print from your favorite free CAD program.

 

http://www.ferreamole.it/images/modelli/mkiv/mkiv.dxf

 

More parts will come soon as the top roof unditching beam side support 

Bye

Pierantonio



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Hero

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Wow! Thanks a lot! I'll scale these drawings for 1/72 and share as well.

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In my opinion one of the worst part in this model is the unditching rail. Really toooooo thick.

It's very hard to rebuilt them due their shape but al least I wuold modify the horizontal strip which is the most seen part.

So I cut the original one and changed with 2 mm styrene strip.

I will join all parts only when the horn will be complete. It will not be an easy task!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I rebuilt also the roof side support

 

 

 

And supports on upper rear horn with some scrapped PE parts.

 

 

Drive wheel with its final drive gear. I pain the interior areas with Vallejo Cavalry Brown which I belive it's a good match for the old red primer.

 

 

The cab needs some filling on the rear. Erase rails support (they will be redone) and fill holes.

 

 

My Landship will have a crew in the drive cab and - may be - in the rear upper port.

 

On the front there will be two figures rappresenting Tank Commander (2/Lt J.O. Evans, KIA in Fontaine Notre Dame, 11/23/1917) and Driver (Pte A. Bates, KIA in Fontaine Notre Dame, 11/23/1917) so I redo the internal cab frame (not so sure it is correct but I think it works). The rear plastic sheet will be painted black to hide the empty hull.

 

 

 

I casted in resin side vison block and now, after some cleanig, they are ready to be glued inside the cab

 

 

 

 

New Lewis ball mount from Takom kit

 

 

 

and pistol port for my next project: converting a Takom Male landship to a Supply Tank with the top towing arrangment and - I hope - hersupply sledge.

 

 

 

More to come...

 

Pierantonio



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Sunday 31st of August 2014 03:46:17 PM



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Sunday 31st of August 2014 05:13:25 PM

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Hero

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Very involved modifications! Love that you added pins to the tops of the hinge arms of the door. Are these Grandt Line bolts?

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d_fernetti wrote:

Very involved modifications! Love that you added pins to the tops of the hinge arms of the door. Are these Grandt Line bolts?


 They come from a bolts and nuts set made by Meng.

 

 



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Hero

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Thanks Pierantonio. By the way, I started a new thread on the rear armor plates on the Mark IV Tank, in order to adapt the artwork you included in this thread but adapted to 1/72 scale, specifically for use on the Emhar kits. I already drew the plates and the roof "box", but I need first to test fit the results on the actual kit to see if the measurements I took were correct and all parts fit as desired. Thanks you again for sharing!

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First of all a good news: the resin copies of the front flap fit well the Takom model with only minor sanding

 

 

I glued the Takom Maxim ball on the front and it works well with only minor trimming.

 

 

 

New vision box inside the drive compartment

 

 

 

Find here the DXF file for the rail top side support you see in the previous message. I don't check it on the model so try correct fit BEFORE gluing them in place.

All dimensions are in millimeters so print 1 CAD unit to 1 millimeter.

 

http://www.ferreamole.it/images/modelli/mkiv/rail_support.dxf

 

I glued side horns with sprocket and idler wheel. In third picture you can see how sprocket and last transmission wheels work toghther. You can see better also the side camo suppport on the outside made with scrapped PE parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again some work on rails. The problem was how to join them in a correct profile.

1) I scan the tank profile from Tamiya color sheet and import the image on my CAD. Then I draw a line from transmission and sprocket axles center.

2) I resize the image to the correct line lenght taking it on the model.

3) I draw the rail shape now in scale 1:1 with the model and print it.

This is how the all that appears on CAD

 

 

 

The cut the front and rear outside profile (this to avolid paper and plastic may glue togheter) and proceed as I wrote on the past message.

 

 

Now you have a one-piece reworked rail.

 

 

I check only a dry fitting on the model but it appears to work.

 

As usual the DXF file with right and left profile. 

 

http://www.ferreamole.it/images/modelli/mkiv/rails.dxf

 

Some work on top hatch (more rivets and pistol port opening lever), muffler to make a better rounded profile and exhaust conduct with thinner supports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More to come...

 

Pierantonio



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Friday 5th of September 2014 11:25:47 AM

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Due the dimensional problem of the rear lookout hatch reported by Terry Ashley at PMMS ( http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/takom/takom2008-9.html ) I start making a resin copy from Tamiya and then try to adapt it to Takom model. After a first look they have the same dimension but I am not sure it will work. It will be a solid part but it's better then a wrong one.

Today I did only the first stage but I hope to finish during this week end.

 

First of all I fixed the hatch with some Patafix (a synthetic rubber like Blu-tac) and sealed it with white glue (easy removable with tap water) 

 

 

 

then I made the mould box again sealed with WG.

 

 

Bye 

Pierantonio



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Hero

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You are a brave modeller!!!

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Colonel

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I wonder how hard it would be to scratch an acceptable hatch for the Takom kit? They shape is not so complex, and the bolt / port details shouldn't be too hard either.

I do like the idea of getting some Tamiya cab hatches with separate vision flaps cast though, as they would be more tricky to scratch for the Takom kit.



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First of all note this is only a dry fitting with no glue or putty so you can see some small gaps most of them I think will disappear simply pressing all parts toghether when gluing.

 

The sylicon mould

 

 

Put resin and cover with a flat base. This is an old 35mm film can with a flat cover filled of sand but you can use every piece of plastic sheet you have. To prevent cover glues with resin, brush it with some oil and make a hole in the middle to allow for resin expansion. Remember to wash everything to remove oil from parts.

 

 

The new observation hatch still attached to plastic cover and then removed from it

 

 

 

 

The flat underside

 

 

Takom parts need virtually no adjustment, only some litte trim on the fron area. The resin part needs some sanding to adapt it to Takom. Note that Takom part is intact so you can put the original parts if you are not satisfied of the newer. It need also two small 0.5x2 mm sheet to make a flate plane for the resin part.

 

 

and here we go! The old Lady has a new hat.

 

 

 

More to come...

Bye

Pierantonio

 



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Sunday 7th of September 2014 01:11:40 PM



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Sunday 7th of September 2014 01:16:23 PM

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Tamiya forgot some rows on the lower hull, side cab (flatted heads) and lower sponson (many thanks to Thorsten for his notes on Takom kit which I applied to Tamiya)

 

 

 

 

I started sponson building. First problem I had was the correct fitting of the gun shield. It didn't fit well leaving a visible gap mainly on the upper area but worst of all this cause the sponson top not seating  correctly (I noted this problem also on prebuiding model by Tamiya)

 

 

 

 

So first I cut the retainer pin and sanded the base to realign the gun but this was not enough.

 

 

Then I sanded the sponson roof gun retainer. Again not enough

 

 

Finally I glued the shield with sponson and now the roof sits well.

I add the Takon Lewis ball support copy (on the other side there will be also the Lewis barrel)

 

 

Remember to fill the shield interior

 

 

Two days ago Lion Marc put on the market a rifled metal 6Pdr barrel and Lewis front portion ( http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/newkitnews/lionmarc.html ) so I decided to make a sort of rifling on the gun.

I used a conical cutter to engrave kit part having soomething looking as a rifled gun.

Not perfect as a metal part but it is so small to be almost invisble so I think it may work.

 

 

 

More to come...

Bye

Pierantonio



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Hero

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As usual, stunning work Pierantonio!
I have a couple of questions, maybe you or other forumites know the answers:
What do you think of the Tamiya plans? Are they complete 3 views? Do you think they're accurate?
Do you know any good source for Mk.IV drawings?
The unditching beam section on the surviving tanks show an isosceles tapezoid shape, while the Tamiya side view shows a right-angled trapozeoid. Which one do you think should be accurate? (at least for Black Arrow II!)

Thanks in advance!



-- Edited by d_fernetti on Saturday 13th of September 2014 10:27:47 PM

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Legend

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d_fernetti wrote:


The unditching beam section on the surviving tanks show an isosceles tapezoid shape, while the Tamiya side view shows a right-angled trapozeoid. Which one do you think should be accurate? (at least for Black Arrow II!)


 May I add a comment here?

I gave the section of the unditching beam some thought and realised (eventually) that an isoceles trapezoid section is both resistant to splitting and maximises the amount of wood that can be cut from a

tree trunk. The yield maximisation is pretty obvious  - a quick experiment with paper circles and scissors shows how much less waste is created if there are no right angles required. The isoceles section also has the original rings of the tree aligned (roughly) with the parallel sides - there are no areas of the tree rings being weakly bound to each other as you get with right angles. I think this attribute

would increase the resistance of the beam to crushing and splitting.

Regards,

Charlie



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Hero

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Thanks Charlie! It makes a lot of sense indeed. The beam, in any case would have been rectangular in section if taken from a building beam, but as you metion, doesn't make much sense for the waste of wood needed to saw a rectangular section prism. If any, it would have been a layered plank, but that wouldn't have been of much use to support the tank weight.



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From WWI pictures section of the unditching beam seems to be an isoceles trapezoid (many thanks to Charlie who explained very well the reason) so Tamiya is wrong but I will not change it.
Also Takom makes a right-angled trapozeoid so casting a resin copy of it is useless.
I don't know how Tamiya 3d views are correct. I checked only the side one and it seems to be ok.
Bye
Pierantonio



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Monday 15th of September 2014 07:01:23 PM

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Hero

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Thanks Pierantonio! Cutting a new beam shouldn't be so difficult at all, mostly after seeing the work you made in the other parts! Still it makes me think why Tamiya AND Takom bring a rectagular trapezoid section for the beam... maybe we're overlooking some reference?

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Legend

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Contrary to what has been said, there were actually right-angled beams. Whether all beams were right-angled, or both types used, I cannot say, but here are a couple of pics of the beams with a right angle, and a pic which is more ambiguous, but probably shows one too:

http://www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles/images/Mark_V_25.jpg  One of the Estonian Mk Vs

 

http://www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles/images/Mark_IV_13.jpg A British Mk IV moving forward in 1918. Not as clear as in the Estonian pic, but I think it shows a right angle on the upper side of the beam - ie, I think the beam is resting on the only sloping side.

 

http://landships.activeboard.com/t7261913/mk-v-id/ I direct your attention here to the photo of Mk V* 9649 in Mark Hansen's post. Although the photo is not clear, it offers a good end view of the beam, and is still clear enough to demonstrate that the beam has one sloping side - in this case the side pointing in the direction of travel, towards the front of the tank.

 

Whether or not symmetrical-section (or isosceles trapezoidal, if you want to tie us in knots smile) beams were used as well, these photos show that the asymmetrical-section (or right-angled) beams were in use, so there is no need to replace the kit parts - unless research shows that the particular tank you are representing had a symmetrical beam!



-- Edited by TinCanTadpole on Monday 15th of September 2014 10:39:26 PM

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Lieutenant-Colonel

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You are right.
I checked again all my references and I found the same thing.
Where beams are clearly visible, they were right-angled and I think Black Arrows had one of them.
Sorry for my initial confusing answer.
Bye
Pierantonio

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Colonel

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Just to add: At Flesquières' Deborah barn, an original unditching beam which was discovered at the grounds there (if I understood it correctly) is exhibited, which is also rectangular.

Regards,
Thorsten

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This week I started with the crew. They will be:

- 2/Lt J.O. Evans, Tank Commander

- P.te A. Bates,Driver

- 1/Lt W.J.G Birnie, Section Commander

 

On the front cab there will be the TC (right on the first picture) and driver.

 

 

 

They are joined togheter at the distance between centre of front vision ports.

How I made them.

2/Lt J.O. Evans, Tank Commander: body comes from Tamiya Officer figure with only a slightly modified right arm to make the figure more compact. Head will be from Hornet and helmet again from Tamiya.

P.te A. Bates,Driver: body comes from an ICM private figure and he will be out of the box with ICM heads and helmet.

 

1/Lt W.J.G Birnie, Section Commander: I wuold like do give some motion to the model so the SC will be rappresented while signalling from the rear hatch with discs (http://landships.activeboard.com/t35163854/signalling-discs-used-by-tanks/). Really I'm not sure this is historically correct but I think this wuold be an interesting addiction to the model whioch may be too flat in her brown color.

So I started from ICM Officer figure with modifing arms, hands and fingers. Head is again from Hornet (I found a nice set with a head looking upward) and helmet from Tamiya.

See in the following pictures how he will appare. I think I will add a 1 mm sheet under his feet to rise him a little but at the present I am not sure I will do this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now it's also time to choose the final color of this old Lady.

I tried some mixes starting from Tamiya suggested paint adding some other colors but finally I choose the "Service Brown" suggested by Micheal Starmer. To achive it with Tamiya colors mix 5 parts of XF68, 4 parts of XF3 and 1 part of XF1 (I mixed XF69 Nato Black instead of pure black).

 

 

More to come...

Bye

Pierantonio



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Last weekend I finished my first Landship. Now she is waiting painting work.

First of all I put TC and Driver on the front cab. Really they are notr a painting masterpiece and the flash light doesn't help so much but few of themm will be seen with hatches so I think it works.

 

 

I will put only one Lewis MG on sponsons because usually they were an emergency weapon. Some times ago a modeller measured on Lodstar III the lenght between ball mount and muzzle. It is 594 mm long.

 

 

I reworked the unditching beam making new chains attachment following Takom instruction sheet and with some scrapped PE part.

 

 

 

 

Now the main problem of this model was glueing rails keeping right position on top of the tank.

Some LEGO brik help me on making a flat surface for the hull.

 

 

Left side 

 

 

 

Some pictures of finished rails and their supports

 

 

 

 

 

 

She is finished!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bye 

Pierantonio



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Wow, amazing work on the model! This will be great.

With best regards,

 

Martin

 



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Corporal

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Your work is fantastic. I was always hoping that Tamiya would think outside the box & release this in a larger 1:16 kit but after seeing all the needed mods, I'd suggest they first spend some time looking over your & Martin's builds.

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Very impressive work!
I didn't expect the model needs so many improvements. A bit disappointing considering the price of the kit!
Regards
Gilles(Lostiznaos)

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After long time from my last message I finished to paint her.

Before painting I added the tubolar radiator filler cap on the upper hull and the tipical B Battalion's unditching beam supports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bye 

Pierantonio



-- Edited by Pierantonio on Thursday 25th of June 2015 01:29:51 PM

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Hero

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Wow! a master class in miniature, it really is, you should be very proud. I love the detail, colour, weathering, scenery... just a great piece of work.

Helen x

 



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Colonel

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It's looking fantastic!

Thorsten

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Lieutenant-Colonel

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I bow to a master!

THE OLD LANCER

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Lieutenant

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GREAT LOOKING MODEL!!!!!


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Sergeant

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Fantastic, great model and article. Great photos as well...

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