Following on from Vollketten's reference in the de Poix thread to the coupled Boirault machines:
I've never been satisfied with the explanation of these two machines, even P. Malmassari's.
Boirault was a manufacturer of railway couplings, and seem to have formed the opinion that railway couplings were the answer to most problems. He therefore designed two "armoured trains", each consisting of three vehicles, joined together, naturally, with couplings. In each case, the petrol-electric power plant was in the central vehicle, and the fore and aft vehicles were to do the fighting.
Drawings of the two can be seen on p24 of PM's excellent Les Chars de la Grande Guerre.
One is described as being 350hp and comprising three Saint-Chamonds, nose-to-tail, joined by Boirault's sort of universal joints. The first thing that struck me was that these don't seem to be normal Saint-Chamonds; at least one looks more like the proposed 1917 version, shorter and with a much reduced overhang, shown on page 50. For the coupling to work, it looks as if the other two would have to lose a lot of their forward superstructure. But the design took place with the permission of Saint-Chamond and Col. Rimailho.
The other machine poses even more problems. PM says it's a 700hp vehicle, and that's it. The caption has no further description of the tank, but more of that in a mo. Some sources say that they were Renault FTs or Schneider CAs, but PM says that neither company wanted to get involved.
The suggestion that they were FTs appears to be a misunderstanding of a genuine trial in which two FTs were joined together with simple beams. It doesn't seem to have come to anything. De Poix surfaces again (after failing to get his tank design adopted, he transferred to the Artillerie Speciale), conducting an experiment with two stripped-down Schneiders joined together.
That leaves the mysterious 700 hp design. PM describes it, but it's not clear (at least, to me) where it came from. It differs from the 350p in that it has the power plant in the middle, but it has front- and rear-facing (amphisbaenic!) tanks, with what look like 75s mounted in turrets. It has double tracks, to reduce ground pressure.
The only conclusion I can come to is that this tank with the 75 was a completely new Saint-Chamond design - and a very major improvement on previous efforts. The inclusion of not one but two 75s would suggest Rimailho's involvement. When it was stopped, to save money and manpower, it seems that Boirault reverted to experimenting with existing or modified Saint-Chamonds.
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
There was a reconstruction in a French magazine (GBM I think) which I put alongside the plans and a copy of the motion of articulation from Vauvilliers Encyclopedia
another view of the articulation from above:
From the top image of articulation you can see that the connector actually has the ability to lift the entire front section off the ground via I assume a hydraulic system
He did a later patent which shows it in more detail.
This one dated 3/6/36 links a series of tanks together using a similar mechanism
Sorry, chaps. I had completely misunderstood a line in PM's book, which sent me in entirely the wrong direction. Now that I've grasped it, I understand that the 700hp version, with the two 75s in turrets, was a project carried out with the cooperation of FAMH (Saint-Chamond). When it was shelved, Boirault attempted the more modest version, using 3 Saint-Chamonds. I still think, looking at the only drawings I know of, that the Saint-Chamonds would have been considerably modified.
But the conclusion remains that the tanks in version 1 (below) must have been brand new designs from Saint-Chamond. I think the problem has been that some sources have taken them to be Schneider CAs, or even FTs, which has confused the situation. They are clearly much more sophisticated than the "elephant on the legs of a gazelle." It would be brilliant to find more details of them.
Many thanks to Michel and Morgoth. I hope Michel will share at least some of what his current research unearths.
-- Edited by James H on Tuesday 3rd of February 2015 10:01:28 PM
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
There was a reconstruction in a French magazine (GBM I think) ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think I've found it in Steelmasters #37, Feb 2000.
__________________
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Hello James,
Some of the images that vollketten has shown appear in GBM #106 on pages 42-43 as a sub-article within a larger article about "Less Maxi-Chars"; this may be the the magazine in question.
Kind Regards
Hello James, Some of the images that vollketten has shown appear in GBM #106 on pages 42-43 as a sub-article within a larger article about "Less Maxi-Chars"; this may be the the magazine in question. Kind Regards
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.