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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Tanks -> Possibly off topic: tank development by Vickers Armstrong Ltd
Post Info TOPIC: Possibly off topic: tank development by Vickers Armstrong Ltd
Vintage Wargaming


Corporal

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Possibly off topic: tank development by Vickers Armstrong Ltd
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Apologies if this is outside the scope of the forum: my excuse is it may have some cross over interest for 1919 onwards.  I have discovered Beamish Museum are holding two large photo albums from Vickers titled tank development by Vickers Armstrong Ltd and which seem mainly to cover the period 1919-1939. 153 photographs are listed (without digital images) on the web site. If I understand correctly there may be considerably more. The photographs however have been digitised and they have invited me to go in to view the albums and request copies of those that particularly interest me.

It looks like these are a company record and look to be pretty comprehensive. Without seeing the albums I can't tell if these photographs are well known or have never been published - certainly with the large number of them I would expect some at least to be quite new to people. Either way I am excited about seeing them. I will see if I can get permission to post some of the most interesting on Vintage Wargaming and on this and other forums, if people are interested.

 



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Rob


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Sounds good to me, especially if it covers the construction of Mk IV's late in WW1. I'd be particularly interested in any images showing the onward transportation of these via railway as it's something I could sadly find nothing on for my book on the North Eastern Railway in the First World War

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Anonymous

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I'm booked in to see the albums tomorrow



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Tonys


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There is a book entitled "The Vickers Tanks  -  from Landships to Challenger II"  by Chris Foss. ISBN 1899506101 - 2nd ed published 1995, 278 pp.



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Vintage Wargaming


Corporal

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Thanks for ythat on the Foss book - I've ordered it and will compare photographs



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Gwyn Evans


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Would be interested to learn more about these albums, but:

1. Vickers Armstrong never built Mark IVs. Armstrong Whitworth did. It would be helpful to know when these albums start because if they did show Mark IVs being built by Armstrong Whitworth I'd also be very interested.
2. I don't rate Chris Foss' book. However I may be being unduly harsh because my opinion is based solely on the fact that there's a photo of a remote control vehicle in there that he completely misidentifies. On the other hand, I know what it is - and it wasn't built by Vickers Armstrong.

Gwyn

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Vintage Wargaming


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Hi my interest in the Chris Poss book is to see whether any of the photographs have been publshed before - the quality of the book or the captions don't matter that much to me, as they are not the reason for getting it. in the 153 photographs I found listed  in a search of the People's Collection database simply using "tank", the first 16 or so are 1915-18, including Little Willie 1915, Mk 1 1915-16, Mk IV (male) 1916-17, Mk IV (female) 1916-17, Medium A (original Whippet) 1917, Mk V (male) 1917, Mk V* (male) 1918, Mk V tadpole, Mk VII (hydraulic transmission) 1917, Mk IX (supply tank) 1918, Mk V** 1918, Mk V!!! ("Allied") tank 1918, Medium B 1918, Medium C (Hornet) 1918, MkV tank fitted with a Johnson sprung track and Rolls Royce engine, experimental 1918,  medium A (spring track) 1919. These are the ones listed in the catalogue - there may be more WW1 pictures in the album not yet listed in the catalogue.



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Rob


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Apologies Gwyn, I did mean AW's rather than Vickers. A fascinating company (AW's that is) who also built the vast majority of railway guns used by the British in the Great War

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Vintage Wargaming


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Well this morning I spent a very intersting couple of hours looking at the photo albums and having a tour round the storage facilities at Beamish Museum. The 

The albums are famtastic and stuffed full of photographs I have never seen before. The  books have been at the Museum since the 1960s, so they are not quite sure how they came by them. Rob I'm afraid the Mk IV pictures were not of them in transit.

The museum will provide me with digital copies of all the photographs and I have permission to post them/publish them on the web - I just need to work out the best way to do this. I would be very happy to past all the WW1 (and maybe 1919) photos here.



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Granty101


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I'd personally love to see any new images you could post.

Grant

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Rob


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Same here. Rather jealous of you having a look around Beamish's storage facilities, must be the only bit of the place I haven't seen yet!

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Gwyn Evans


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I would also be very interested in these photos, and not just from WW1, but let's start there. If we can provide some captions then that would be a good quid pro quo for the museum. The museum is a long way from me (as is everything) so this is excellent. Thanks very much.

Gwyn

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Lothianman


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One point which may bear on the purpose of the album is the dating. The main run of the photo album seems to have been compiled, or at least the list drawn up (possibly retrospectively), around 1927 or not long after - most of the writing is the same. However the 6 tonners and later are in a different hand (the N in Tank for instance) so could be later on that ground alone, never mind the dates of the tanks, as indeed the mentions of the A9 and A10 suggest.

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Vintage Wargaming


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The good news is the photgraphs have now arrived. There is an update on my Vintage Wargaming blog:

http://vintagewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/exciting-times.html

 

I'm intending to set up a new blog to host the photos and which should besearchable. The WW1 photos will be among the first to go up - taster attached



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MK1 Nut


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Hi, Thank you for all your work on this, any new or better quality of existing photos is very welcomed. I myself will be looking out for any images of MK1 Tanks. smile

Helen x



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Granty101


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MK1 Nut wrote:

Hi, Thank you for all your work on this, any new or better quality of existing photos is very welcomed.

Helen x

 I second that Helen smile

Grant



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Vintage Wargaming


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I've been a busy bee and I'm glad to announce the launch of the Interwar Tank Development blog here:

http://tankdevelopment.blogspot.co.uk/

There are roughly 100 posts with the photographs and original captions from the first Vickers Armstrong Ltd Works album. I am intending to add text at a later date.

For the second album I need to go back to Beamish next Thursday to go through and record all the captions from it. There are a further 120 photos or so in the second album, this includes a number of WW2 ones including a fair number of Valentines, but all the WW1 photos are now up (from the first album).

If you look at the Pages tab on the home page you will see a page called media, which has a number of British Pathe and Movietone clips, and an interesting IWM archive audio interview.



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Granty101


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Keep those photos coming please!!!

Grant

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MK1 Nut


Hero

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Fantastic work! Loving it!

First thing I will say though is there's a mistake... no... but a very interesting one. smile

The MK1 you show is actually a MK2. That photo though is a very interesting one, as it shows the Bovingtons only surviving MK2 with a camouflaged set of MK1 wheels on the back. It makes me wonder if the Museum actually received it from another Collection with the tail wheels already on it.

The Tank has the same shell holes and roof hatch, so definitely the same one.

Helen x

Link to photo



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tanks3


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VW

Brilliant blog and photos. Two comments:

1. Why in a book about Vickers do they include pictures of the medium A (Whippet) and C (Hornet)? These were only ever built in Lincoln and not by Vickers

2. On the photo of the Medium A with Spring Track, there is a number starting with an A. I can't make the rest of the number out on the blog photo. Can you?

Thanks for doing this. I will add the blog to my favorites

Tanks3



-- Edited by tanks3 on Thursday 9th of July 2015 05:21:10 PM

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Gwyn Evans


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I agree with Helen about the Mark I being a Mark II. There's another captioning error in that one of the Mark IV Females (the one numbered 74) is actually a Mark III Female. The Mark IV Male is fitted with the Reynolds chain operated unditching gear. I think that the Mark V Male is a Composite (aka Hermaphrodite). This is because the tank has a Male sponson (obviously) but the serial number starts 93, and only Mark V Females had such numbers. So, to me this looks like a Mark V Female hull fitted with a Male sponson, and so I believe it to be a Composite.

I think I'm right in saying that all the WW1 photos are of tanks in the original tank museum at Bovington, mostly scrapped during WW2. The Mark IX survives, as does the Mark II.

Not off topic at all really.

Thanks for posting.

Gwyn

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Gwyn Evans


Legend

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tanks3 wrote:

VW

Brilliant blog and photos. Two comments:

1. Why in a book about Vickers do they include pictures of the medium A (Whippet) and C (Hornet)? These were only ever built in Lincoln and not by Vickers

2. On the photo of the Medium A with Spring Track, there is a number starting with an A. I can't make the rest of the number out on the blog photo. Can you?

Thanks for doing this. I will add the blog to my favorites

Tanks3



-- Edited by tanks3 on Thursday 9th of July 2015 05:21:10 PM

 1. Vickers didn't build any of the other WW1 tanks either...

2. A254



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Neo1940


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Thank You very much!!!

It's Great, really!

I look forward to the second album!

I am very grateful for your work!



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tanks3


Major

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Gwyn

Thanks as ever

Tanks3

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Gwyn Evans


Legend

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Note that in my post, "Reynolds" is incorrect; it's "Renolds".

Gwyn

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Tonys


Field Marshal

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Stunning stuff!!  

It's plain to see that a lot of photographs currently available came from this video or were taken at the same time.  For a better look at some of the odd machines steaming past, refer to David Fletcher's book "Mechanised Force - British Tanks Between the Wars" (ISBN 0 11 290487 4  HMSO). It's a fascinating story of how we lead the world in armoured warfare - for a while.



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Vintage Wargaming


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Following a second visit to Beamish today to copy all the captions from the second album, all the interwar photos from it (around a hundred or so) have now been added to the blog. If you are interested in bridging techniques, or gaining an in depth knowledge of military trailers between 1925 and 1935, this could be the place for you.

Update on Vintage Wargaming 

http://vintagewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/back-to-beamish.html

and posts on the new blog at

http://tankdevelopment.blogspot.co.uk/



-- Edited by Vintage Wargaming on Tuesday 14th of July 2015 10:38:00 PM

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Granty101


Colonel

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Your work in bringing these vehicles to out attention has to be applauded. Thank you.

Grant

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