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Post Info TOPIC: Fortress Howitzer - Ottoman


Legend

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Fortress Howitzer - Ottoman
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This Turkish howitzer was on the Axis history forum but no one came up with an identification. There was a suggestion

it was French but that seems unlikely since it uses a sliding wedge breech block - something the French didn't use.

In terms of deployment it looks similar to the French 155 C Mle 1880 howitzer relying on a wooden plank floor 

with the gun sliding on the floor for recoil absorption. 

It appears to be about 15cm calibre - the carriage looks oversized for that calibre perhaps it was downsized from a larger calibre?

It seems some were deployed in Palestine in 1917.

Regards,

Charlie

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 24th of March 2020 10:22:50 AM

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Legend

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In the list of Ottoman artillery imports there are 3 types of short barrelled guns made by Krupp imported in 1885

20 - 12cm L/6,3 Krupp Ms
20 - 15cm L/6,4 Krupp Ms
20 - 21cm L/6,4 Krupp Ms 

Perhaps the mystery fortress howitzer is one of these. I haven't been able to find anything about these guns

either data or images.

Regards,

Charlie

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 24th of March 2020 10:05:10 PM



-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 24th of March 2020 10:05:35 PM

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Legend

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Found an image on Wikimedia commons of a 15cm 1881 Krupp Morser. The carriage isn't the same as the Turkish gun but the barrel

has similarities. The caption on the 1881 images say it was photographed in April 1918.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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Major

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Hi, 

See attachment of some photos of 15cm and 21cm Krupp Morsers from 1880s. The surviving 15cm Morser is from the History Museum of Pacific Fleet in Vladivostok, which I believe was used by Chinese army in Port Arthur before 1895 and later recycled by the Russians. For 12cm Morser I havent seen photos but as the barrel length is similar I doubt if they could be much different. 

My own two cents is, perhaps this had something to do with the Turkish 12cm M1892 howitzers mentioned on AHF forum (https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=109440&start=210https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=109440&start=195)? 

Regards, 

Yichuan



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Hero

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I would agree this is a Krupp piece.  The ring counter-weight forward of the trunnions was likely installed for it's new roll a a mobile piece. ( perhaps 12cm ?) You will note the carriages in the first two pics are similar in design yet different in detail.   The small diameter 8 spoke wheels don't lend themselves to serious road travel either.  An expedient example for sure, and most interesting. Thanks for posting.    



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Legend

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Found another Krupp Morser - 24cm M1892.

This was displayed at the Chicago Exhibition of 1892. The text says it was a replacement for the 21cm Morser.

The basic carriage and controls look like developments of the earlier fortress Morsers.

The muzzle velocity was quoted as 200 m/sec and max. range of 4000m.

The BOCN people (http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/downloads.php) have a Krupp catalogue from the 1880s in their downloads but I don't think I've posted enough on their forum to download it. Anyone help?

Regards,

Charlie

 



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Major

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Hi, 

Try to search "Krupp" on http://bibliotecavirtualdefensa.es/ , there are two sets of Krupp albums from 1892 and 1896 respectively. In the 1892 albums there are a number of 1880s Krupp Morsers, among which I have just found the 12cm Morser and the 24cm Morser that you've mentioned. 

There are certainly more Krupp albums out there on the Internet, but this one seem to cover the most Morsers. 

Regards, 

Yichuan

 



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Legend

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Thanks for that. It seems that Krupp made fortress mörsers in many different calibres.

The Turkish example seems to have a carriage so it can be moved around reasonably easily.

There is a howitzer in Shirokorad's Encyclopedia which looks very similar to the Turkish carriage - it was designed

so that the howitzer could be fired with limited preparation by running the wheels up inclined ramps to absorb the recoil. 

I'd still like to view the 1880s Krupp catalogues - they might have the alternate form of the carriage.

Regards,

Charlie



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