Landships II

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Artillery -> 42mm Hotchkiss mountain gun with field carriage & limber
Post Info TOPIC: 42mm Hotchkiss mountain gun with field carriage & limber
kkfj1


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 135
Date:
42mm Hotchkiss mountain gun with field carriage & limber
Permalink   

Hi all, 

I'm curretly researching the Hotchkiss 42mm mountain guns used by Chinese army in late 19th and early 20th century, at least 24 were purchased in 1895 to make up for the huge loss of guns in the Sino-Japanese War 1894-95. From contemporary Chinese manuals and photos it is clear that these guns had field carriages with two ammunition boxes and a retractable tail wheel, and a limber with additional 3 boxes, which are rather different from the mountain guns commonly used by the US Army at that time. 

Hotchkiss1.jpgHotchkiss5.jpg

However I did find that at least a few of the US guns also had very similar carriage and/or limber. Photos of this type appeared in a Hotchkiss advertisement in Army and Navy Journal in 1894, and even more interesting is a photo from the book 'American Breech Loading Mobile Artillery 1875-1953' which is said to be a gun on display in Honululu. 

Honululu.jpg

I really would like to know if there are more/clearer photos of this type of carriage and limber, and if they were sold to any other countries beside China and the US. Also, is the Honululu gun still surviving? 



Attachments
__________________
CharlieC


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2293
Date:
Permalink   

 

The US Army purchased the 42mm (1.65inch) Hotchkiss gun in 1877- 1897. They were sold out of service around 1908 and there are still some

in private hands in US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRHSzHknqME (shows are pair of these guns being fired - video is 2011).

http://www.spanamwar.com/hotchkis165.htm

https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/2053-373/ (auctioned gun)

https://archive.org/details/handbookforligh00dyergoog/page/n41/mode/2up (Handbook for Light Artillery 1896 p.1 - 22)

There is an article on the 42mm gun in Revue d'Artillerie but this seems mostly about moving the gun with camels.

Regards,

Charlie

 



__________________
kkfj1


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 135
Date:
Permalink   

Thank you for the info! As you have shown the information on 42mm Hotchkiss gun itself is relatively abundant (except for it being carried by camels which I have not heard of before).

I am more curious about the type of carriage with 2 ammunition boxes, tail wheel and limber, which were used by Chinese and at least some of the American Hotchkiss guns, but seems to be rather lesser-known (probably only constructed in small numbers?). Any good photos and/or additional information about this type of carriage would be extremely helpful. 



__________________
CharlieC


Legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 2293
Date:
Permalink   

 

The American guns didn't seem to use a limber. The instructions for the gun talk about using a third pack mule to carry

4 boxes of ammunition.

The ammunition boxes on the axle may not have been a permanent thing - the image taken in Hawaii in the 30s is the only one I've

found with ammunition boxes attached to the axle. I seems that there were simple clamps which located the boxes on the axle and on a

couple of guns there are brackets at the front of the carriage which may have been for the ammunition boxes.

There is supposed to be a Hotchkiss catalogue with this gun from 1896 but I haven't been able to track it down on line - perhaps that

shows the limber.

Regards,

Charlie

 



__________________
kkfj1


Major

Status: Offline
Posts: 135
Date:
Permalink   

Thank you for the info. That's interesting, maybe these were only built in relatively small numbers.

I tend to believe these are two different carriages - the carriage used with limber had, except the ammunition boxes, also had a small retractable tail wheel which is clearly shown in the Chinese manual and the photo from 1894 advertisement (which I attach a larger picture), and also in the Honululu gun if you look carefully. And from the American drawings of the common mountain carriage, the axis seems to be too short to take the ammunition boxes (see attachment). 

advertisement 1894-2.jpg

Actually a similar carriage appeared in a Maxim-Nordenfelt mountain gun of the same caliber, which also had a mountain carriage with shorter axis and no ammunition boxes. 

Nordenfelt 42mm.jpg

I agree that 1896 Hotchkiss catalogue may contain such pieces as it was advertised in the US in 1894 and sold to China in 1895. But unfortunately I cannot find it either. 

Do you have pictures of guns with brackets in front of the carriage? 

Regards, 

Yichuan



Attachments
__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Artillery -> 42mm Hotchkiss mountain gun with field carriage & limber
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard