Landships II

steve fildes · Sergeant

pinhole model photography

Roger Todd · Legend

That sounds like great fun! Of course, I probably won't be stirred off my backside to actually go so far as trying it, but you never know...

Anyway, let's have a look at your photos then!

steve fildes · Sergeant

Well, um, I guess I'd better go out and take some. What I've been doing is old cemetery sculpture, churches, and whatnot.

Roger Todd · Legend

Sounds really interesting actually, albeit way off-topic!

You could always post one anyway, I for one am very curious as to the look of such photos, so the subject matter is immaterial really.

steve fildes · Sergeant

Okeydoke. I'll do it; I do seem to be the Off Topic Kid, of late....

Don't look for it too soon, though, as there's floor refinishing going on here.

Mark Hansen · Legend

I don't think it's that off topic; after all, the Landships site is supposed to be about WWI modelling as well as the vehicles themselves and photography of the models is a part of that modelling.

Roger Todd · Legend

Curse you Fildes, I've looked up that pinhole camera site and now I'm being drawn in...

Yet another distraction!

steve fildes · Sergeant

Roger Todd wrote:

Curse you Fildes, I've looked up that pinhole camera site and now I'm being drawn in...
Yet another distraction!

Hah! My work here is done....

After looking up Vilkata's picture posting guide, I see I'm behind the curve on internet knowhow. I'm afraid I won't be showing off soon. So it's good that you looked up that site.

Here's another, with a gallery of hundreds of pinholists:

And even worse, at the "Pintoid" site (I dunno, but it can be googled), there are shots made with Altoid-can cameras. Very funny site. With a Pintoid camera you could squeeze it in any cranny in your diorama....

steve fildes · Sergeant

Here's another, with a gallery of hundreds of pinholists:

And even worse, at the "Pintoid" site (I dunno, but it can be googled), there are shots made with Altoid-can cameras. Very funny site. With a Pintoid camera you could squeeze it in any cranny in your diorama....

No, HERE'S another, with a gallery etc.:

http://www.pinhole.org

eugene · Field Marshal

Hi steve

i really hate to be off topic
BUT my physics class has a project to build a pinhole camera
how do you do that?
and how do you develop the film?
what film you use?

Thank You in advance

I am so sorry its off topic

steve fildes · Sergeant

eugene wrote:

Hi steve

i really hate to be off topic
BUT my physics class has a project to build a pinhole camera
how do you do that?
and how do you develop the film?
what film you use?

Thank You in advance

I am so sorry its off topic

Hi, Eugene,

Sure, I'll go off topic. Now this is easy to make. Pinholes are supposed to be fun, and their pictures look pretty strange. So relax....

Take a look at that "pinhole.org" site, and they have instructions, I think. I'll look to make sure.

1. Get a cardboard box. Any cardboard thick enough to keep out daylight will do. A small stationery or notecard box is about right. Cut a hole 1.5 cm or so in the top. Or make your own box.

2. Take a really thin piece of metal. Brass shim, a disposable aluminum pie pan or the base of a votive candle is pretty good. Cut a piece out of it, a little bigger than the hole in the cardboard lid. Use a sewing needle or a pin to make a TINY hole in the metal. (Put the metal on a hard surface. Put the needle tip on the center of the metal. Rotate the metal until the pin "drills" through it.) Just the very tip of the needle should fit through the finished hole. No need to measure diameter.

3.Tape the metal piece over the hole in the cardboard with opaque tape. If you tape it inside the lid, you'll be able to pull off your tape "shutter" later without yanking the metal piece off with it.

4. Optional step: Paint the inside flat black or line it with black paper. That keeps reflections down.

5. Ready. Get film or photo print paper. More on that in a minute. Go in a dark room. If you use photo paper it doesn't have to be as dark the inside of the pyramids. but if you use film it does.
You load the camera in the dark by laying the film on the back of the box. A little tape at corners helps it stay put. Put on the lid. Tape it up light-tight. Put opaque tape over the hole, too. If you doubt your light-tightness, carry the thing in a bag when you're outside.

Oh, yes: emulsion side toward the hole if you use paper, or you'll be REALLY disappointed. Doesn't much matter with film.

6. Film or Paper? Print paper's easier to handle for most folks -- the traditional chemical darkroom kind. A safelight can be used in a dark room while you load it, or a red LED clockface, or something like that, so you can see what you're doing, sort of. But the room has to be pretty tight, with no light streaming under the door, or anything.

Exposure times with paper are long, but not terrible. Maybe a minute or two.

Film is easier for your photo lab, but not for you. It has to be pitch dark when you load it. A closed closet in a dark windowless room with all the lights out in the house at midnight.

But film exposes quicker when the big moment arrives. (It still won't be good for stop-action.) If you use film, try something like ISO 100 speed, so you've got time to work the shutter. Fast film won't help here. Color or black & white is fine.

AND with film or with paper, this will make a negative image, not a positive.

How much else do you need? You may be a darkroom whiz and I'm wasting your time. Let me know. I'll look for sample exposure times. You only get one shot per reload, after all, so trial and error is slow.

One big question is: Do you have a custom darkroom where you live? They can process more unusual things, like this.

Good luck!

eugene · Field Marshal

thank you so much,
I am completely new to this
and could you describe the print paper method more detailed?

my email is ww1_tanks AT yahoo.com AT is @

thanks

Centurion · Legend

This site gives all you need to know I think. Its a bit tediuous to navigate and was obviously designed for the under tens but I think it should not be beyond the wit of this forum to follow it (provided that it contains no ploitics)

http://users.rcn.com/stewoody/

-- Edited by Centurion at 14:53, 2006-05-04

Date: May 4, 2006

I seem to remember somebody using a similar technique with an adapted waste bin, (the large kind on wheels), which could be brought to a location, and left for some time. The results were impressive, but it would be interesting to see what can be done with a 1/72 diorama. I have just tried photographing my carved 1/72 figures with a fairly basic digital camera, and the result is not impressive.

Phil R · Captain

i wish i was a better photographer!

whole rooms can be cameras; old houses (posh houses, that is) had rooms that were called 'camera'. they had a small 'slot' for a window, and one viewed the wall opposite the slot. over time, the paint on the wall developed an image of the view that could be seen at any time of day or night. one theory is that a similar principle was used to develop the image on the Turin shroud (hey, if we are doing politics, we may as well do religion as well )

and Eugene, i'm a science teacher. so if you want some help just let me know.

-- Edited by Phil R at 16:59, 2006-05-04

Centurion · Legend

Phil R wrote:

old houses (posh houses, that is) had rooms that were called 'camera'. they had a small 'slot' for a window, and one viewed the wall opposite the slot. over time, the paint on the wall developed an image of the view that could be seen at any time of day or night.

Camera obscura. Portable versions were used by some landscape painters 16th - 19th century. They'd position and assemble this black canvas tent so that the image of the desired landscape projected onto a blank canvas, go inside and pencil in the outlines of the upside down image, this gave them the cartoon for the final picture.

(hey, if we are doing politics, we may as well do religion as well )

As some one whose family has Irish connections and who has also spent a large chunk of his working life in the MEast I'm all too aware of what can happen when you mix religion and politics

. Please x2 lets not go there even in jest

-- Edited by Centurion at 17:53, 2006-05-04

steve fildes · Sergeant

Say, Eugene,

The site that Centurion posted looks very good. Their step-by-step is good.

The paper negative technique is the one I'd recommend for ease. Plus, you get a BIG negative. 35mm film is just too small to deal with easily at first.

Go to a photo store that still sells non-digital supplies. A packet of 5"x7" black-and-white print paper doesn't cost too much. If they have out-of-date paper at a bargain, that's fine for this. Otherwise, "B&H Photo" in New York sells all that stuff on the internet, and they're reliable. They do phone orders if you need help.

"Ilford" is the main paper brand now. You can use pearl finish or glossy. Avoid matte, as it's hard to tell which side the emulsion is on. (On the others, the emulsion side feels slicker.) Emulsion toward the pinhole!

Buy "RC" paper instead of "FB" if you can. "RC" is designed to be processed faster and is on a plastic base. FB stands for fiber base (paper).

Ilford paper is better than Kodak for use as a negative. Kodak has its name printed all over the back, so your picture will have an image, plus "kodak...kodak..kodak..." I found this out the hard way.

SO: Ilford 5x7 print paper, glossy or pearl, RC, if available.

Feel free to ask more. Between me, your other help offers and websites, we can keeep you really confused!

steve fildes · Sergeant

Phil R wrote:

whole rooms can be cameras; old houses (posh houses, that is) had rooms that were called 'camera'. they had a small 'slot' for a window, and one viewed the wall opposite the slot. over time, the paint on the wall developed an image of the view that could be seen at any time of day or night. so if you want some help just let me know.-- Edited by Phil R at 16:59, 2006-05-04

There's an art photographer who blacked out the back of her Audi Fox and uses the whole thing as a mobile pinhole camera. She calls it, of course, the "Auto Focus."

I suppose if you used an AFV as a darkroom, it could be the "Developing Tank."

Centurion · Legend

Sort of staggering back on theme - worth considering that the gun sighting mechanism on H G Wells' land ironclad uses a rather sophisticated form of camera obscura

steve fildes · Sergeant

Centurion wrote:

Sort of staggering back on theme - worth considering that the gun sighting mechanism on H G Wells' land ironclad uses a rather sophisticated form of camera obscura

Well, at least that would limit battles to nice sunny days! "High Noon: it's not just for gunslingers anymore!"

Roger Todd · Legend

I can imagine the scene...

steve fildes · Sergeant

Roger:

I like it. Gives a new meaning to "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes." Could have retarded tank development in the UK, though....

Thomas Buecheler · Captain

Hi, I really like "Out of Topics"!

Allow me a question, please. How do you convert a "negative" photograph (using Ilford photopaper inside the camera) into a "positive" one?

Thank you!
Thomas

steve fildes · Sergeant

Thomas Buecheler wrote:

Hi, I really like "Out of Topics"!
Allow me a question, please. How do you convert a "negative" photograph (using Ilford photopaper inside the camera) into a "positive" one?
Thank you!Thomas

Thomas:

It's easy, and it doesn't use an enlarger. You just need a light source, a dark room, and a sheet of window glass or clear plastic. In a pinch, corner weights might do.

Develop your paper negative -- OR have a custom photo service do it for you.

To Print: Put the negative on top of your unexposed print paper. You'll make a contact print the same size as your negative.

Put the glass on top. Turn the light on to expose your print. (Try a couple of seconds first, then double that, then so on, to find the right exposure. To save paper, you can cut some "test strips." Label the exposure time for each one on its back with pencil.

Light: Incandescent works best, as fluorescents flicker and continue to fluoresce when they're turned off.

Kind of amazing that something this primitive can work, but it does. Good luck!

steve fildes · Sergeant

Thomas, again:

I reread what I wrote, and it might not be clear. The light source can be just a light bulb in the ceiling. No need for a light table or anything fancy. Just lay your print paper on a table top or the nice clean floor.

As a "safelight," a digital clockface - red or amber is best - more than a meter away from the paper, will give you more than enough light to work by. You want just enough light to see what you're doing.