Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Not a whippet ARV

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

Another really interesting photograph which I certainly haven't seen before. I am hoping to build a Gun Carrier recovery vehicle in 1/72, so this is a very pleasing addition. Any idea of the location and date?

Centurion · Legend

No idea on location, given the presence of a Mk V** it must be post Nov 1918. Worth noting that as well as the two gun carriers built in 1917 as salvage cranes, more gun carriers had jibs fitted in late 1918

Mark Hansen · Legend

Not sure if this helps but here's a shot of the gun carrier with crane from the side.

One other thing about this photo is that the gun carrier might be salvaging a tank (I.8) seen in this thread.

P.S.: Good luck with the model of the gun carrier, Michael.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 13:27, 2006-09-25

Mark Hansen · Legend

Michael Taylor wrote:

Another really interesting photograph which I certainly haven't seen before. I am hoping to build a Gun Carrier recovery vehicle in 1/72, so this is a very pleasing addition. Any idea of the location and date?

According to Rhomboid's post, the caption for the photo had it located and dated as Bovington 1920.

Roger Todd · Legend

Michael, you may be interested in the first of the two photos I've attached below - it's from David Fletcher's 'Landships', and shows one of the Gun Carrier salvage tanks. By the way, have you seen this webpage?
Gun Carrier by Julio Pillet

These are his drawings:
Pillet Plans 1
Pillet Plans 2

Good luck with your model!

Of course (should have checked first!), there are some photos of Gun Carrier salvage tanks on the main Landships page:
Landships Gun Carrier Page

However, the link is broken to one of the blow-ups, which happens to be the one I scanned and attached, so the effort wasn't completely wasted...

I've also attached a couple of photos of another Gun Carrier with a steam powered Priestman crane attached by the Royal Engineers - irrelevant to your needs I know, but it might be of interest.

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 23:15, 2006-09-25

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

Roger Todd wrote:

Michael, you may be interested in the first of the two photos I've attached below - it's from David Fletcher's 'Landships', and shows one of the Gun Carrier salvage tanks. By the way, have you seen this webpage?
Gun Carrier by Julio Pillet

These are his drawings:
Pillet Plans 1
Pillet Plans 2

Good luck with your model!

Of course (should have checked first!), there are some photos of Gun Carrier salvage tanks on the main Landships page:
Landships Gun Carrier Page

However, the link is broken to one of the blow-ups, which happens to be the one I scanned and attached, so the effort wasn't completely wasted...

I've also attached a couple of photos of another Gun Carrier with a steam powered Priestman crane attached by the Royal Engineers - irrelevant to your needs I know, but it might be of interest.

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 23:15, 2006-09-25

Thank you for the references. Comparing with photographs, I am not sure that the drawings by Julio Pillet have the proportions exactly right. Bovington plans service also has drawings by J.L. Rue, (again, slightly dubious), and some additional material, which does at least show the sheerlegs, but the Gun Carrier is just one of the beasts that deserves its own "Datafile" style publication. A couple of year ago, before I had any internet access, I paid a visit to Lincoln to get measurements an details of a Mk. IV for my own purposes. Now that it has become apparent that there are others who share my interests, I am hoping to gather enough data for accurate drawings, etc., of Mother, etc., since there does not seem to be a single location where this is collated.

And the magnificent Priestman grab conversion would be on the list!

Roger Todd · Legend

I thought so too, the drawing looks a bit squashed horizontally. However, the model looks fine, so perhaps he didn't proportion the web version of his plans properly? Anyway, did you notice the reference to this article on the Gun Carrier:

David Fletcher, No 58 of the now defunct magazine �Wheels & Tracks�

Could be worth tracking down, maybe even a note to David might be in order...

Whatever happens, please post progress on your salvage tank models! And if you ever tackle the Priestman grab...

Centurion · Legend

Michael Taylor wrote:

Comparing with photographs, I am not sure that the drawings by Julio Pillet have the proportions exactly right. Bovington plans service also has drawings by J.L. Rue, (again, slightly dubious), and some additional material, which does at least show the sheerlegs, but the Gun Carrier is just one of the beasts that deserves its own "Datafile" style publication. A couple of year ago, before I had any internet access, I paid a visit to Lincoln to get measurements an details of a Mk. IV for my own purposes. Now that it has become apparent that there are others who share my interests, I am hoping to gather enough data for accurate drawings, etc., of Mother, etc., since there does not seem to be a single location where this is collated.

I think that you are absolutely right. There is a general lack of reliable drawings on most if not all marks. This can have quite wide effects (for example I compare the French drawings of the French rhomboid project with thiose I have of Mk IV and the hull curves are subtly different but I do not have complete confidence in the Mk IV drawing. This can make the difference between a conversion from, say, an Ehmar which I might try and a scratch build which would take more effort than I can currently apply.
If you are assembling info on the gun carrier it would be interesting if you find any drawings, photos of the mock up etc of the proposed gun carrier II which was by all accountsa very diferent beast

A minor point from what I've read the Priestman grab wasn't so much a conversion of an existing gun carrier as a revised build of a new one.

Point of general interest - an account by an ex tanker in 1919 suggests that the failure of the gun carrier as a gun carrier was due to a design error that got the centre of gravity calculations wrong. With a gun loaded it became unduely nose heavy and this made it susceptible to ditching in shell holes and difficult to get out.

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

The point about the centre of gravity is interesting, as the carrier concept seems so prescient.

My disorganised collection of data/drawings/photographs is intended to yield results eventually, and has been given new impetus. I have been told that there is good information on Priestman equipment, which I have not yet pursued. And I have awaited a good drawing of a Mk.IV for so long that I decided to do it myself. (One of my ad hoc tests for accuracy in other people's drawings is the location of all pistol ports, including the one on the plate adjcent to the hatch. If it has'nt got that....)

I suppose the question is, would any publisher consider military WW1 datafiles a viable proposition?

Mark Hansen · Legend

Michael Taylor wrote:

The point about the centre of gravity is interesting, as the carrier concept seems so prescient.

My disorganised collection of data/drawings/photographs is intended to yield results eventually, and has been given new impetus. I have been told that there is good information on Priestman equipment, which I have not yet pursued. And I have awaited a good drawing of a Mk.IV for so long that I decided to do it myself. (One of my ad hoc tests for accuracy in other people's drawings is the location of all pistol ports, including the one on the plate adjcent to the hatch. If it has'nt got that....)

I suppose the question is, would any publisher consider military WW1 datafiles a viable proposition?

If a publisher was interested, the model companies would be more likely to issue kits. This was the problem that Roden pointed out when I asked them if they would be issuing WWI armour kits.

Tim R · Hero

Hello Gents

If you need this article I can post it.

(David Fletcher, No 58 of the now defunct magazine �Wheels & Tracks�)

All the best

Tim R

Roger Todd · Legend

Tim R wrote:

Hello Gents

If you need this article I can post it.

(David Fletcher, No 58 of the now defunct magazine �Wheels & Tracks�)

All the best

Tim R

Do bears defecate in arboreal areas?

Is the Pope a (former) Nazi?

Michael Taylor · Lieutenant-Colonel

Back in my youth, the Airfix Magazine used to review new Airfix products, and the print the article on how to update and improve a product which I felt ought to have been better in the design stage. Perhaps we should initiate a campaign to inundate Roden, (and others), with our collective findings, in the hope of stimulating their interest. After all, the modeller who wishes to build an Albatros W4 has the choice of early or late versions, and we have waited for good kits for too long. There could even be an aviation tie-in with RFC transport Leylands, Thorneycrofts, and there is good contemporary data on these.

What do we want? I would welcome suggestions, and see if I can assemble a manufacturer's data reference from existing sources.

Tim R · Hero

I take that as a yes

I will post it in a little bit.

All the best

Tim R

Centurion · Legend

Michael Taylor wrote:

Back in my youth, the Airfix Magazine used to review new Airfix products, and the print the article on how to update and improve a product which I felt ought to have been better in the design stage. Perhaps we should initiate a campaign to inundate Roden, (and others), with our collective findings, in the hope of stimulating their interest. After all, the modeller who wishes to build an Albatros W4 has the choice of early or late versions, and we have waited for good kits for too long. There could even be an aviation tie-in with RFC transport Leylands, Thorneycrofts, and there is good contemporary data on these.

What do we want? I would welcome suggestions, and see if I can assemble a manufacturer's data reference from existing sources.

If we want to convince a manufacturer we first need to demonstrate that there is a market, they are profit making organisations after all. If we could show that there is a demand - perhaps a poll? If we could make this wider than just the forum it would be more convincing. Given the hit figures for the Landships site as a whole there are a lot of interested people out there who don't use the forum. Peter K is there any simple way of polling readers? If of course you would want to in the first place.

Tim R · Hero

Hello Gents

As promised, here is the full Gun Carrier Machines article by David Fletcher from the No.58 Wheels & Tracks.

If anyone would like it in German, I have that as well.

All the Best

Tim R

Roger Todd · Legend

Fantastic Tim, many thanks!

The 'light version' is interesting, I was completely unaware of that design.

Vilkata · Brigadier

Tim, that must have taken a lot of time to scan and put up here!!

Thank you VERY much! I have a Wheel & Track issue, but not that one! I have the one that focuses on the A7V and Uberlandwagen, along with its motive parts, gear box, etc. Interesting stuff. Wheel & Tracks back issues seem to be getting harder and harder to find, and its hard to find the ones with the content you're looking for. Much like the Tankette MAFVA magazine.

Thanks again Tim! Really great read!

---Vil.